NeoB Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 On 7/21/2022 at 11:42 AM, l33tmaan said: I think it's a terrible idea and people should move away from DRM platforms like Steam as much as possible. I don't care how visible it makes the game. No, it's not. Protecting your game is not a terrible idea at all.
Forceous Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 (edited) 9 hours ago, NeoB said: No, it's not. Protecting your game is not a terrible idea at all. Completely moving away is not a good idea though. As a consumer you're not getting hurt by using Steam even with DRM (they will not wake up on a random Tuesday and take all your games away) and quite frankly I cannot imagine myself using that Epic Games clunk or even GOG which is DRM-free. On the other hand, there is a big issue with Vintage Story being on Steam and that is the refund policy, you only have maximum 2 hours of playtime to refund your game. Given how it took me about 5 hours to be satisfied with the game and also the fact that the progress is just very slow paced, lots of people might not end up liking the game but they're way past the refund time. One good thing about Steam is regional pricing, while there is already an option for LATAM countries, that doesn't mean everyone else can buy the game at 20 euros, it is a cheap price overall, but lots of people from my country would not be able to afford it, and if it was on Steam it would've been priced around 12-14 euros which is more affordable. Edited January 22 by Forceous
williams_482 Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 11 hours ago, NeoB said: No, it's not. Protecting your game is not a terrible idea at all. Correct, protecting your game is a great idea. That's why given the choice you should buy it from a platform which (unlike Steam!) actually gives you ownership over your copy. Steam has been a great product since it started and will probably continue to be a great product until Gabe Newell retires or dies. Once that happens, expect a harsh decline. We don't actually own any game we bought on Steam, only the indefinite rights to play them on the Steam platform. If there's a quick buck to be had in cutting people off and Gabe or a comparable ideologue isn't there with the power to veto, it will happen. That's the lifecycle of software companies these days. As for this game going on Steam, the devs are quite clear at the top of their FAQ that they do not want to do that, and why. Their reasons make plenty of sense. If you really want to be able to launch Vintage Story (or another non-Steam game) through Steam, though, you can totally do that! There's a detailed tutorial from another forum user explaining how.
Bumber Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 (edited) On 1/22/2026 at 6:37 AM, williams_482 said: Correct, protecting your game is a great idea. That's why given the choice you should buy it from a platform which (unlike Steam!) actually gives you ownership over your copy. Steam has been a great product since it started and will probably continue to be a great product until Gabe Newell retires or dies. Once that happens, expect a harsh decline. We don't actually own any game we bought on Steam, only the indefinite rights to play them on the Steam platform. If there's a quick buck to be had in cutting people off and Gabe or a comparable ideologue isn't there with the power to veto, it will happen. That's the lifecycle of software companies these days. The problem is that you can't say that VS's download servers will outlive Steam's, nor that Anego couldn't similarly decline after Tyron retires. Will GOG.com still exist in 50 years? (VS isn't even on GOG, of course. You're forced to use Anego's platform in actuality, with the same indefinite rights.) It's not like you've got a finished Vintage Story CD-ROM sitting in your room. You don't still don't own VS, because it's not how software law works. Your ability to play is strictly limited by all obstacles to installing and running the software, and VS isn't FOSS. Your only means of playing any given game in at an arbitrary future date may be a legally dubious one*. Having the game available on more than one platforms is at least an improvement. *Due to copyright law, running previously installed software you no longer have the license to use is basically indistinguishable from just pirating it. Only difference is the additional unauthorized transmission of data. Edited January 24 by Bumber
williams_482 Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, Bumber said: The problem is that you can't say that VS's download servers will outlive Steam's, nor that Anego couldn't similarly decline after Tyron retires. Will GOG.com still exist in 50 years? (VS isn't even on GOG, of course. You're forced to use Anego's platform in actuality.) It's not like you've got a finished Vintage Story CD-ROM sitting in your room. You don't still don't own VS. Your ability to play is strictly limited by all obstacles to installing the software, and VS isn't FOSS. Your only means of playing any given game in at an arbitrary future date may be a legally dubious one. That's all true. VS is much smaller than Steam, and Tyron claims he'll shut off the DRM in a final update if the servers go down. I believe that he means that, and I have much more faith in one guy deciding to make the moral choice than a multi-billion dollar corporation, but there is a danger here and I would be considerably happier if the game didn't have DRM. 1
Bumber Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 (edited) 7 minutes ago, williams_482 said: That's all true. VS is much smaller than Steam, and Tyron claims he'll shut off the DRM in a final update if the servers go down. I believe that he means that, and I have much more faith in one guy deciding to make the moral choice than a multi-billion dollar corporation, but there is a danger here and I would be considerably happier if the game didn't have DRM. Notch also said he'd open-source Minecraft when he stopped development. What actually happened is that he handed over development to Jeb, before ultimately selling rights to Microsoft to be rid of responsibility for the game. (I don't think Notch ever intended to go back on his word, but the game's popularity was clearly a major source of stress for him. It's not like we didn't end up with a bunch of Minecraft clones anyway.) Edited January 24 by Bumber 1
Vexxvididu Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 31 minutes ago, Bumber said: Notch also said he'd open-source Minecraft when he stopped development. What actually happened is that he handed over development to Jeb, before ultimately selling rights to Microsoft to be rid of responsibility for the game. (I don't think Notch ever intended to go back on his word, but the game's popularity was clearly a major source of stress for him. It's not like we didn't end up with a bunch of Minecraft clones anyway.) Yeah, I feel very confident in Tyron in the short and medium term; but I can see why there would be a lot of temptation to sell it to a big company eventually. We've already talked ad nauseam about how a big company might jack it up in a number of ways trying to make it more popular and losing the central vision of the game and blah blah... But I don't think joining Steam is a real solution to that problem. Steam likely would mean slightly more stable hosting services and a bit more exposure but I understand and respect their decision to stay off of it. It's possible they will join Steam if they can use their new size to negotiate for better rates with them... but I am not privy to such things. I'm largely indifferent to steam or not given that I already bought and downloaded it from their own servers.
LadyWYT Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 I mean for what it's worth, Steam isn't the ultimate solution/protection for everything either. It's a popular service because of its convenience and decent quality at the moment, but that's also subject to change depending on who's running the business. The rules could easily change later, or the company fold entirely and that's the end of it. I'm not saying that Steam will do that, of course, just that it isn't immune to the standard hazards of business and digital products.
marmarmar34 Posted Tuesday at 06:28 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 06:28 PM Im quite confused over the discourse. It's not like VS can't be sold anywhere else if it's on Steam or GoG. As for mods, plenty of games still use third party sites instead of the workshop. Deep Rock Galactic immediately comes to mind. Hell, people still go on gamebanana and moddb to mod valve's own games! It just feels like a bunch of ho-humming. There really isn't a tangible downside to dropping it on other storefronts later down the line.
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