New 1.18 version terrain generator disappointment....

[The_Cheeki]

I have made a modified landform file based on .17 generation settings and some fixes I applied myself. These have been tested mainly on 512 and 1024 height worlds.

Overall generation is much smoother (perhaps too flat on 256 worlds) and jaggies are largely not present. Water islands and similar, lakes, and underwater stuff has been touched only briefly and may still present some weirdness.

Install by replacing the landforms file in your /assets/survival/worldgen/  Make a backup first! Better used on a brand new world! It will work on old worlds but it will cause seams on new chunks.

There may be other bugs that I have not found, as such, absolutely no support is provided! You are on your own!

Edit: made a mod version here: https://mods.vintagestory.at/worldgenfix

landforms.json

Edited April 30, 2023 by The_Cheeki

[imperialwaltz]

I tried the "801461586" seed but all I got was more of the same terrain generation. I have everything set to default.

I come from a mountainous region in the north of America and I've never seen terrain like this. It's just 'normal' and then suddenly a wall of blocks, I'm finding myself walled into corners in a lot of directions as well due to the sheer verticality all over.

 

[The_Cheeki]

I have released a new version with some tuning. The stepped cliff walls are a thing in .17 I decided to keep, most of the time they blend into other landforms making them more traversable but not always. I personally like them.

[Rhyagelle]

There's definitely flat grounds in the new generation. Playing on a server that has oceans enabled. Found three massive continents that went from swampy to forests to hills and then drop into giant flats. It just seems to favor hills a bit too much. lol

[imperialwaltz]

On 5/1/2023 at 1:43 PM, Rhyagelle said:

There's definitely flat grounds in the new generation. Playing on a server that has oceans enabled. Found three massive continents that went from swampy to forests to hills and then drop into giant flats. It just seems to favor hills a bit too much. lol

I'm not sure if you're just trying to discourage anyone pointing out what they dislike about the terrain generator but I don't play on multiplayer and from the sounds of it you were on some kind of map that I assume was modified in some way.
What would be helpful though is if you or others would instead try to help the newer players navigate how to 'enable' such great sounding features in a map rather than understating our experience.
Attached is another screenshot, I've tried again today to create a world that seems plausible and I've been unable to.

It feels extremely game-breaking when considering the stamina usage constantly having to jump all the time.

Worse is the constant hits to HP because everywhere is a falling death trap

Edited May 5, 2023 by imperialwaltz

[Arith]

I'm a new player. I bought the game a few days ago, so I haven't played other versions, but yeah, something that bothers me is the lack of flat ground. Every time I find some flat ground, I'm in an unstable place, or I keep hearing wolves (aren't they supposed to spawn mostly in forests?). I've made more than 10 maps so far. And also, I get so tired of trying to find a map that I search for ways to go creative to try to find a place to settle, and I still haven't found one. I don't know if I've been unlucky or what, but I don't know what to do; I want to play! I only have time to play for an hour or so a day, so it is really annoying to spend all that time walking nonstop to find a flat place that is unstable or has wolves.

[Maelstrom]

I haven't played the new version yet, but from my understanding of the new terrain gen mechanics, it seems that reducing the uplift may create greater likelihood of flat terrain.

[Echoweaver]

Agreed.  I'm not sure what parameters our current server was created with, but uplift was reduced. The landscape is hilly but looks pretty natural. My single-player game created with default uplift is much more extreme.

[Rhyagelle]

17 hours ago, imperialwaltz said:

I'm not sure if you're just trying to discourage anyone pointing out what they dislike about the terrain generator but I don't play on multiplayer and from the sounds of it you were on some kind of map that I assume was modified in some way.
What would be helpful though is if you or others would instead try to help the newer players navigate how to 'enable' such great sounding features in a map rather than understating our experience.
Attached is another screenshot, I've tried again today to create a world that seems plausible and I've been unable to.

It feels extremely game-breaking when considering the stamina usage constantly having to jump all the time.

Worse is the constant hits to HP because everywhere is a falling death trap

If you think me sharing my impressions and opinions of the hill problem in the new generation is "discouraging you" from stating your own dislike of the terraine generator (re-read what I said, as I pointed out it does seem to favor hills), that is entirely on you. So take a chill pill and relax, there's no need for you to get this upset over a simple and unproblematic post. 

And there is not option to "enable" and I never stated that there was. It's randomly generated. You may find a seed that is 90% hills. Another might find a seed that is varied in its generation more comfortably. The seed of the MP world I was playing on had a few continents that had pretty nice spread in variation of terraine. That was all I said. And the only way to alter the generation is through mods that target that or continously making a stink out of it until the developers take another crack at the generation.

  

10 hours ago, Arith said:

I'm a new player. I bought the game a few days ago, so I haven't played other versions, but yeah, something that bothers me is the lack of flat ground. Every time I find some flat ground, I'm in an unstable place, or I keep hearing wolves (aren't they supposed to spawn mostly in forests?). I've made more than 10 maps so far. And also, I get so tired of trying to find a map that I search for ways to go creative to try to find a place to settle, and I still haven't found one. I don't know if I've been unlucky or what, but I don't know what to do; I want to play! I only have time to play for an hour or so a day, so it is really annoying to spend all that time walking nonstop to find a flat place that is unstable or has wolves.

As someone who also does the same thing, spending hours walking looking for places that aren't hilly or swampy, I feel that pain. Hopefully the developers take another chance at changing the code, maybe make it favor hills a lot less. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Rhyagelle

[Thorfinn]

I hear you @Arith though I don't usually encounter that. So far all but one game I've started in 1.18 has had a large, open area (albeit possibly with enough trees that may well spawn wolves sometime) that I find before noon of day 1, and that's just heading away from spawn point in whatever direction the initial temperature demands, and following the easiest path. At a guess, probably 600 or 800 from spawn, maybe a bit more. Now granted, they aren't exactly flat, maybe a one block drop per 4-10 horizontal. Or are you looking for something with less grade than that? Those still exist, but will probably need a lot more exploration.

Since you are playing with the map, take advantage of it. Right at the beginning of the game, type M H to open the map and (handbook to get the pause.) Click on the 3 lines in the upper corner of the handbook to move it off to the side and look at that map. Zoom in on anything that catches your attention and see if you can make sense of it, and back out to get the bigger picture.  As you learn more, you will know what else you want to look for, but for the moment, you are looking for level ground, like the small patch shown on the minimap of @imperialwaltz's first screenshot just west of where he is. His second screenshot has a fairly large flat spot just southwest of him. Will either of those open into a larger area? Maybe. The map will show more, but once you get there, check your map again. Often that reveals better stuff to look at.

Move to wherever you want to investigate. (Hint: If you right-click on the map, you can set a waypoint. Select "Pinned" if it is a ways away from you, and it will show up right at the margin of your minimap to show you which direction you need to go.) Repeat M H as often as you need to. Learn to read the terrain on the map so you can plan a good route to get where you want.

Sorry if all this sounds obvious. It's just the stuff I wish I had known my first few days with the game.

[Stealthkibbler]

I've found the terrain to be pretty samey and demonstrate a lot of the issues already mentioned, however when I took a teleporter that flung me 20k blocks south on the border of where desert and tropical climates meet I was met with beautiful mesas towering into the sky and rolling tropical hills, I'm wondering if this might be an issue particular to the central part of the hemisphere where the player is first spawned.

I really wish rivers were a thing rather than these chaotic pools of water and inland seas we have, i know theres an ocean setting now but you still end up with these parts of the map that are filled with pseudo beaches despite the terrain in the area being well above sea level.





 

[The_Cheeki]

I believe the new upheaval system is part of the problem of not finding flat ground.

First image is upheaval 0%, second image is upheaval 40% (default). Seed is the same for both of these. 188151880. Coordinates are in the screenshot.

I would suggest tuning the upheaval to a lower value or turning it off completely to have a higher chance of finding flat ground.

[Rhyagelle]

57 minutes ago, Stealthkibbler said:

I've found the terrain to be pretty samey and demonstrate a lot of the issues already mentioned, however when I took a teleporter that flung me 20k blocks south on the border of where desert and tropical climates meet I was met with beautiful mesas towering into the sky and rolling tropical hills, I'm wondering if this might be an issue particular to the central part of the hemisphere where the player is first spawned.

I really wish rivers were a thing rather than these chaotic pools of water and inland seas we have, i know theres an ocean setting now but you still end up with these parts of the map that are filled with pseudo beaches despite the terrain in the area being well above sea level.

Rivers would be a fantastic addition to the generation. It could also help with the hilly parts of the world, too, because you could just take your raft through them rather than jumping and jumping, oh and climbing for 5+hrs. Also, it would just be a lot cooler and definitely make the maps look nicer without 10 trillion variously sized random lakes/pools. 

[Thap]

The generation desperately needs some sort of erosion pass and rivers, yeah.

[l33tmaan]

7 hours ago, Stealthkibbler said:

I've found the terrain to be pretty samey and demonstrate a lot of the issues already mentioned, however when I took a teleporter that flung me 20k blocks south on the border of where desert and tropical climates meet I was met with beautiful mesas towering into the sky and rolling tropical hills, I'm wondering if this might be an issue particular to the central part of the hemisphere where the player is first spawned.

I really wish rivers were a thing rather than these chaotic pools of water and inland seas we have, i know theres an ocean setting now but you still end up with these parts of the map that are filled with pseudo beaches despite the terrain in the area being well above sea level.



 

Most of the landscape in 1.18 I've noticed (mostly from flying around in creative mode so far, tbh) has this kind of weird "shredded" look on the map. Down on the ground it's usually not that noticeable, but once you get high up it does get a little weird. I'm not even necessarily opposed to it, but it seems to be all over the place. 

Thank god for StepUp!

[Thorfinn]

1 hour ago, l33tmaan said:

Thank god for StepUp!

Oh, man! I completely forgot about StepUp. I'll have to go get that again.

Thanks for looking into that, @The_Cheeki Nice information. That is a weird perspective. I don't play creative, and don't nerdpole that high, so it took me a bit to realize the lake with catmint on the shore in the foreground (near the gear) in your first screenshot there is halfway to the corner of your minimap.

Wow. The minimap is basically useless in creative, isn't it?

Edited May 6, 2023 by Thorfinn

[dakko]

Has anyone tried out the new defaults for upheaval and landform scale? I'm really curious to see if it's a noticeable improvement, but can't play for a couple of days. Would love to hear opinions/experience!

[Thorfinn]

Are you talking 1.18.1 or 1.18.2.rc-2? My comments have been based on the former. I'm planning on looking at the latter tomorrow or early next week.

Do you think there will be a difference between Wilderness (my standard) and Survival? If you would prefer Survival just in case there's a difference, I'd do so.

[dakko]

Oh, thank you! Yes, I was talking about 1.18.2.rc-2.

I don't think there would be a difference in world generation (between Wilderness and Survival), but I don't know for sure. Wilderness would be fine!

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by dakko

[The_Cheeki]

15 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Oh, man! I completely forgot about StepUp. I'll have to go get that again.

Thanks for looking into that, @The_Cheeki Nice information. That is a weird perspective. I don't play creative, and don't nerdpole that high, so it took me a bit to realize the lake with catmint on the shore in the foreground (near the gear) in your first screenshot there is halfway to the corner of your minimap.

Wow. The minimap is basically useless in creative, isn't it?

Tried to get a 1:1 perspective on both screenshots for comparison, doesn't really work on a still image though. Also high FOV probably doesn't help heh.

The new parameter "landform scale" is a neat addition. I assume it just scales up the noise with which the landforms are generated, I have not checked this yet. Having a hard time with the rc2 build, as it can not stop freezing on world gen/exit. I think the upheaval rate being lower is a bigger influence on world gen.

[Thorfinn]

Oh, don't misunderstand. You did a great job. I was just trying to reconcile the minimap to the main screen, and it took me a while to realize that that whole center of the minimap is below your field of view. In whatever direction you face, if you look straight to the horizon, only the outer quarter or so of the minimap is in your FOV.

For example, in your last picture, you see a finger lake sticking up just off the bottom of your main screen, right above the 4th backpack slot. You only see like 3 voxels of that lake on the very top of your minimap. The tall spindly mountains behind that are several minimaps away. Similarly in that first of 2 screenshots, the white sandy beach partially obscured by that pine tree just above your first 3 backpack slots is that sandy beach clear up on the very top center of your minimap.

I was just amazed at how much that perspective shows so little of what is on your main screen on the minimap.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Thorfinn

[Copperman]

Personally I have found the world I generated at random pretty bad in terms of mountains. I like the idea of mountain ranges but it seems often that every little area of flat grass is surrounded by enormous tight waves of mountains that shoot up to the build limit and then plumet straight down to like y level 100 abd then straight back up. It makes exploration in those environments really nasty

[Skatter]

im new and currently just playing the exploration mode to learn the mechanics. Can i still go and fight the resonance and fight the scorpions etc?

Does the exploration mode still have the winter?

the quern (the seed grinder) i cant make the granite block because when i use blue clay it makes granite cobble stone. 

[dakko]

23 minutes ago, Skatter said:

the quern (the seed grinder) i cant make the granite block because when i use blue clay it makes granite cobble stone. 

Welcome to Vintage Story, Skatter. What you need for the quern are whole stone blocks, not the smaller stones. Here is a video that explains:

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by dakko

[imperialwaltz]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:06 PM, Rhyagelle said:

If you think me sharing my impressions and opinions of the hill problem in the new generation is "discouraging you" from stating your own dislike of the terraine generator (re-read what I said, as I pointed out it does seem to favor hills), that is entirely on you. So take a chill pill and relax, there's no need for you to get this upset over a simple and unproblematic post. 

And there is not option to "enable" and I never stated that there was. It's randomly generated. You may find a seed that is 90% hills. Another might find a seed that is varied in its generation more comfortably. The seed of the MP world I was playing on had a few continents that had pretty nice spread in variation of terraine. That was all I said. And the only way to alter the generation is through mods that target that or continously making a stink out of it until the developers take another crack at the generation.

  

As someone who also does the same thing, spending hours walking looking for places that aren't hilly or swampy, I feel that pain. Hopefully the developers take another chance at changing the code, maybe make it favor hills a lot less. 

NGL I've seen you on Steam doing the exact same kind of pocket moderating and it's fairly annoying trying to share one's experience when someone else is constantly crowing in the background how great theirs' is with multiple comments. It's a weird form of one-up-manship that I'm not fond of, especially when the thread itself is simply about what people are disappointed with, with the current generator, in an Early-access game, where the developers ask for this kind of feedback.

Being annoyed isn't being upset as well, not everyone is a "u mad?" troll. We're real people with real money and real opinions.

Having said that I was able to find the setting after fiddling around with the "uplift" option in the customize world and I found that 10-20% seems so much better than the default 40%, though I found 0% to be very flat with unnatural formations.