What does everyone think about the enemies

[Oofishy]

I have been playing this game for a while now, and I love most of it, the farming and food making is one of my favorite part, but I am not so sure about the enemies.

Here are my specific thoughts:

Drifters: I don’t like the rock throwing ability I know it used to be necessary to prevent cheesing storms but now bowtorns can do that

Bowtorns: definitely my favorite design and overall enemy but I wish the arrow landing sound was louder to give more warning

Shivers: I’m a little confused by this one, how am I stunning it? Is it the light?

What are your thoughts? Am I right or wrong?

[LadyWYT]

2 minutes ago, Oofishy said:

Drifters: I don’t like the rock throwing ability I know it used to be necessary to prevent cheesing storms but now bowtorns can do that

They're adorable, especially with throwing rocks. Basically grumpy old men that just want the seraphs to get off their lawn, lol. The rock throwing is fine, in my opinion. Surface drifters are fairly harmless, and the ranged attack means you do need to think a little harder about how to defend against them, unlike some of the enemies of the other block game. For high level drifters, the rocks also provide an excellent window of opportunity for either attacking or fleeing, since drifters need to stand still for the animation and the damage is the same for a thrown rock regardless of the drifter that threw it.

Plus I mean...it's funny to watch them fight each other if one hits the wrong target with a rock. Once in a great while, you'll see drifters manage to kill themselves with their own rocks too.

6 minutes ago, Oofishy said:

Bowtorns: definitely my favorite design and overall enemy but I wish the arrow landing sound was louder to give more warning

The scrawny little legs crack me up. Otherwise, they're a nuisance, but not really difficult to deal with, and I say that as a Blackguard. In regards to having more warning that there's one about--I've noticed that bowtorn are rather quiet until they notice you. At that point, that's when they make their strange shrieking bark before shooting at you. If you hear a shriek-bark, it's time to move or equip a shield before you get speared.

8 minutes ago, Oofishy said:

Shivers: I’m a little confused by this one, how am I stunning it? Is it the light?

Nope! They stun themselves, believe it or not. The idle animation where they spasm into a scrunched up pile of shiver for a few seconds triggers randomly both when they're aggressive and when they're peaceful. It's very useful for getting in some free hits, especially since shivers are beefier than drifters or bowtorn. Higher level shivers have two other idle animations, but those will only play when they are peaceful.

I don't know why, but somehow the shivers strike me as "cute" too. Not that I like dealing with them, mind you--they still spook me. But they do act like big goofy spider-dogs half the time. You should see one try to swim.

[Maelstrom]

Usually I play blackguard but wandered over to the hunter side for this version.  shivers and drifters both take 3 flint spears to kill, so don't know if shivers are "beefier" than drifters.  Bowtorns are a quick 2 shot with flint spears.  The hard part for them is finding them at night.  Haven't tried a storm since the first one completely trashed my full nutrition.  I had literally almost no nutrition after the third death, but I was running around nekkid with flint spears.   The numerous bowtorns quickly dispatched me with little, if any, effort on their part.  Currently cogitating how to go about designing a bunker that can be used to fight off the nasties that go bump in the night... err storm. 

I gotta say that Tyron and team have created one heck of a combined arms force to fight.  ESPECIALLY when the storms hit.  So effective he had to tone down the spawnage in storms.  Kudos @Tyron

Fortunately for hunters chain mail doesn't reduce accuracy of a recurve bow that much.  Might make some bronze chain mail and arrows.  Just need to mine a lot more supplies before I can do that.  

[LadyWYT]

1 minute ago, Maelstrom said:

shivers and drifters both take 3 flint spears to kill, so don't know if shivers are "beefier" than drifters. 

Playing Blackguard, I can kill a surface drifter with two hits from a steel falx. For a surface shiver, it takes me three hits, if I'm recalling correctly. They aren't skittering tanks, but classes that aren't Blackguard will probably need an extra hit or two on average to kill a shiver(in melee).

6 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Currently cogitating how to go about designing a bunker that can be used to fight off the nasties that go bump in the night... err storm. 

If it helps, shivers can't currently climb over fences. Bowtorns seem to like to pick a spot to camp and aren't keen on moving unless you get too close.

8 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

I gotta say that Tyron and team have created one heck of a combined arms force to fight.  ESPECIALLY when the storms hit.  So effective he had to tone down the spawnage in storms.  Kudos @Tyron

Agreed! I'm afraid of the dark again.

[Maelstrom]

7 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

If it helps, shivers can't currently climb over fences. Bowtorns seem to like to pick a spot to camp and aren't keen on moving unless you get too close.

Agreed! I'm afraid of the dark again.

I'm pleased with my change to hunter so far.  Looking forward to what I can do with my recurves once I get some arrows.  For the first time since I started playing in 1.14, I've actually captured chickens to become a feather factory.

I'll confirm that shivers can climb at least 2 blocks of dirt.  I suspect they can climb anything but fences, which seem to keep ANY critter from climbing over them, even me when I place a stair next to a single high fence and a slab on top of the fence.  Gotta jump onto the slab.  At least aminals don't escape when snow piles up in the uncovered pens and we don't need to build two high fencing for pens.  On the other hand I miss my single block drifter pit lined with fences on the inside of the pit to farm drifters.

[Oofishy]

19 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Surface drifters are fairly harmless, and the ranged attack means you do need to think a little harder

Maybe i’m just under geared but they take about 3 hits to kill and kill me in 4 hits which Isn’t too bad but when there are 3+ attacking me I end up dying a lot.

It also seems like they throw rocks when they are way too close, I’ll hit one and with the knock back it’ll be far enough to throw rocks

18 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Playing Blackguard

18 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Usually I play blackguard

Is blackguard just better?

 

18 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

I'll confirm that shivers can climb at least 2 blocks of dirt.  I suspect they can climb anything but fences, which seem to keep ANY critter from climbing over them

I don’t think this is true, I had some chickens in a pen with 2-high fences and a fox still got in and killed them

Edited January 10, 2025 by Oofishy

[Brikert]

30 minutes ago, Oofishy said:

Maybe i’m just under teared but they take about 3 hits to kill and kill me in 4 hits which Isn’t too bad but when there are 3+ attacking me I end up dying a lot.

Drifters are chunky guys and can just barely waddle, if you're overwhelmed only by then, just run. Their rocks used to be precise like sniper rifles, but not anymore, so at a distance a bit of moving around and they miss.

30 minutes ago, Oofishy said:

I don’t think this is true, I had some chickens in a pen with 2-high fences and a fox still got in and killed them

You had a gap somewhere, it happened to have spawn there(bad luck, but can happen with how spawns are handled, in this case you'll have to move your pen), there was a high enough block pile near for it to accidentally jump over or a modded block that acted as a gap. Critters will not path through fences, even if they should be able to jump over.

For a clear and humorous example, consider this bear I have trapped in a fence square that is a block below it and has a top just showing above and surrounded by delicious rabbits. For reference, brown bears can jump three blocks high.

Edited January 9, 2025 by Brikert

[LadyWYT]

34 minutes ago, Oofishy said:

Maybe i’m just under teared but they take about 3 hits to kill and kill me in 4 hits which Isn’t too bad but when there are 3+ attacking me I end up dying a lot.

Sounds about right, in regards to the other classes on default gameplay settings. And while surface drifters aren't particularly dangerous when compared to other enemies, they are still dangerous en masse.

36 minutes ago, Oofishy said:

Is blackguard just better?

It depends. Blackguards have a bit more health, do more damage in melee, and aren't as penalized by armor. The drawback though is that they do less damage at range, have a harder time foraging, and require more food to keep alive. They're a late-game powerhouse in the right hands, and the drawbacks aren't that hard to overcome, but it's also not a class I would really recommend for someone brand new to the game unless they really enjoy playing tanky bruisers.

[7embre]

14 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

They're adorable, especially with throwing rocks. Basically grumpy old men that just want the seraphs to get off their lawn, lol. The rock throwing is fine, in my opinion. Surface drifters are fairly harmless, and the ranged attack means you do need to think a little harder about how to defend against them, unlike some of the enemies of the other block game.

Plus I mean...it's funny to watch them fight each other if one hits the wrong target with a rock. Once in a great while, you'll see drifters manage to kill themselves with their own rocks too.

Yeeeah, I love goofing around with them. Drifters are perfect in their current realization IMO, especially with the addition of new mobs in 1.20

14 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Agreed! I'm afraid of the dark again.

True. Got into the deep cave with a friend of mine in search of chromium in rc.3 (I believe?), to get absolutely destroyed by new creepy-crawlies. Like what, three times? Iron makes it so much easier to deal with high level drifters that it almost spoiled me into believing that deep = easy, lol

14 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

I gotta say that Tyron and team have created one heck of a combined arms force to fight.  ESPECIALLY when the storms hit.  So effective he had to tone down the spawnage in storms

I've had pretty weird experiences with temporal storms from rc.3 till rc.5, one time it was all about spawning ONLY ranged new mobs, so that even being outside for 15-20 seconds would tear my health in half (full Forlorn hope set AND a shield). Given that they did not despawn unlike drifters, it was pure nightmare, even after storm ended. The other two storms were as normal as they can be, and I mean it - only drifters. No traces of new mobs at all. Can't say for the newer versions as I still didn't get my hands on them, unfortunately.

New mobs are pretty scary and all, but they didn't solve the "problem" that I feel completely safe at home. No surface mobs could climb walls (would be neat for shivers, with their spontaneous convulsions ), no one could break blocks (they better don't, I really hate that in the other block game), and no one could break through doors or windows (that would be interesting I think, like if there were about five drifters behind the door, they would be able to open it. Addition of wooden bars for doors and gates, the ability for mobs to break it with their quantity would be neat too, but that's my wishes). However, I do like how it is dangerous in the deep dark again

[Maelstrom]

15 hours ago, Oofishy said:

Is blackguard just better?

Not necessarily.  The bonuses fit my playstyle very well.  Find a class that you like.  BTW, the penalties aren't that noticeable, so try something different once in a while.

 

Quote

I don’t think this is true, I had some chickens in a pen with 2-high fences and a fox still got in and killed them

Something else killed your chickens.  Last night I watched a fox terrorize my chickens while unsuccessfully attempting to get through a single high fence.  IF the fox got into the pen it was either a glitch (I've seen entities glitch through walls) or you left some kind of path to your chickens open.  /edit - or the fox spawned in your chicken pen.

Edited January 10, 2025 by Maelstrom

[Oofishy]

I have just gotten a chest plate and shield and drifters are much less of a threat,

16 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

the fox got into the pen it was either a glitch (I've seen entities glitch through walls) or you left some kind of path to your chickens open

the fox must have spawned/glitched in,

15 hours ago, Brikert said:

For a clear and humorous example, consider this bear I have trapped in a fence square that is a block below it and has a top just showing above and surrounded by delicious rabbits. For reference, brown bears can jump three blocks high.

I will remember this when building my next pen!

18 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

BTW, the penalties aren't that noticeable, so try something different once in a while.

That is mostly what scared me into choosing commoner

[Maelstrom]

1 minute ago, Oofishy said:

That is mostly what scared me into choosing commoner

Same here.  Until someone mentioned the penalties are barely noticeable, so I went straight to blackguard.  The increased hunger rate was a delightful challenge (it makes cooking meals in a crock very important early game) and I did notice that seeds from wild crops had a noticeable decline, but otherwise I couldn't tell the difference. The extra health really helps in the early game as it's easier to survive those surprise wolf attacks and once nutrition is high bears aren't as scary.

Likewise with hunter I haven't noticed the mob drops being better than other classes, but the increased accuracy in projectile targeting is WONDERFUL!

Those benefits make the commoner not having any benefits actually turns it into a class penalty.  I highly encourage you to take some time and look through the classes and pick on that suits your style.  Prefer melee combat over ranged combat or like mining?  Pick blackguard.    Love exploring new locales and robbing graves, err looting ruins?  Malefactor.  

[Oofishy]

3 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Likewise with hunter I haven't noticed the mob drops being better than other classes, but the increased accuracy in projectile targeting is WONDERFUL

I did try hunter in an early world, but in my current one i’m a commoner and I am definitely noticing a difference in mob drops, but maybe i’m just finding smaller animals

 

 

[Maelstrom]

I'm likely getting better drops, I just haven't subjectively felt it is much different.

[Lodeclaw]

I think the new mobs are very cool but I'm a little concerned they might be a bit overtuned for permadeath players. I haven't started a 1.20 world yet. Would you guys say you're dying more often with the introductions of the new mobs?

[Teh Pizza Lady]

30 minutes ago, Lodey said:

I think the new mobs are very cool but I'm a little concerned they might be a bit overtuned for permadeath players. I haven't started a 1.20 world yet. Would you guys say you're dying more often with the introductions of the new mobs?

not at all. I die more to bears and wolves than I do the new underworld mobs. I'm not above living in a hole in the ground and only venturing out during the day.

[tonechild]

I die more often to shivers during temporal storms.

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, Lodey said:

I think the new mobs are very cool but I'm a little concerned they might be a bit overtuned for permadeath players. I haven't started a 1.20 world yet. Would you guys say you're dying more often with the introductions of the new mobs?

Not a permadeath player, but played 1.20 quite a lot. The only times I've really died were to dealing with bears and wolves in the earliest portion of the game, and later on to silly mistakes brought about by my own complacency. Doesn't mean the new mobs aren't dangerous, but like the other monsters we have, dealing with them is mostly optional. I tend to wait until I am appropriately geared before delving into caves or braving the temporal storms and nightly rift activity.

[Maelstrom]

I've hunted during nights of high rift activity without death.  Temporal storms are a whole new ball game with higher tier mobs. Until good armor is available a bunker or safe kill box is likely the best option to survive.  1.190 I'd run nekkid with flint spears merrily dispatching anything and everything (include multiple two headed drifters).  The higher tier bowtorns are malevolent, malicious mother truckers!  Killed me three times in the first storm I attempted.  I'm gonna have to test the new storm spawning after the new mob storm spawning was tweaked.

[Oofishy]

1 hour ago, Lodey said:

I think the new mobs are very cool but I'm a little concerned they might be a bit overtuned for permadeath players. I haven't started a 1.20 world yet. Would you guys say you're dying more often with the introductions of the new mobs?

I didn’t play much with only the 1.19 mobs, but the bowtorns and shivers are definitely killing me more than drifters do.

[Thorfinn]

Bowtorns and shivers are a good combination. Serious missile damage if you can't mitigate, and if you design an arena, shivers can climb at least 2. Building an arena that lets bowtorn pin you down and shivers attack from above is... suboptimal.

[WeebWarrior0284]

I hate bowtorns and shivers so much. How the hell am I supposed to fight them when they group up? 

Bowtorns just one shot you early-mid game if you don't have the right armor on. 
Shivers are right up against you 24/7 and give you no breathing room. I can't fight them without dying so damn fast.

 

[Irulana]

The new monsters are quite good. I think shivers shouldn't have have same damage as drifters are they have advantage of being faster so to balance them they should have less damage.

Tips for killing bowtorns: the best is to run them they escape and don't defend much. Shivers cannot cross one block gap so building columns help.

[Zane Mordien]

I love the concept of the new mobs, but I don't think they are balanced. In general I'm starting to think the nightmare damage tier is just too much unless they add some reward to offset the risk. Forgetting the storms, just day to day having nightmare shiver and bowtorns just make me ignore caves after a certain depth. There is nothing of value in caves that make it worth fighting a nightmare anything. I don't really want them dropping better loot either because people will just set up mob farms and make another problem.  

 

Maybe something in the future will make cave exploring necessary at those depths. Even then I wish the shiver and bowtorn were a little less common. I used to love the thrill of running into the saw blade locust in caves and having to figure out how to deal with it. I want the new mobs to be the same thrill and not just drudgery.

[Thorfinn]

I think the damage is fine, @Irulana. As you note, their size more than compensates. Particularly in a cave situation, just placing one or two fenceposts stops them, allowing you to safely kill them. Or better yet, take up the spawn slot. And on the surface, you have plenty of time to prepare for storms.

@Zane Mordien, they only do 20. Filling two nutrition bars is trivial, starting a third protects you from being one-shotted, even without armor. IIRC, you can tank a single hit with no nutrition bars with just improvised armor, so long as he gets a body hit. That's without a shield.

But you are right the reward is not worth it. So... figure out how not to have to fight them? We used to do that in storms, going after only the double-headed. Since that equivalent does not exist outside of storms (so far as I know) there is literally nothing worth killing in the caverns if you can just avoid them.

Edited February 13, 2025 by Thorfinn