Brown Bears need a speed nerf badly

[Teh Pizza Lady]

1 minute ago, Discipline Before Dishonor said:

So... In your mind, this constitutes abusive verbiage? For real? Like... Snowflake mentality much?

yes

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

Anyway guys I fixed my problems. I made a mod right here https://mods.vintagestory.at/slowerbrownbears which reduces the speed of brown bears to be equal to black bears. I didn't make this next mod but it still works, I tested it in creative mode and nothing spawned in the well-lit area: https://mods.vintagestory.at/weatherthestorm. It effectively makes light level prevent spawns in a storm. Lastly, for anybody interested, I also made a class mod too so here it is: https://mods.vintagestory.at/orphanclass

Edited December 11, 2025 by Discipline Before Dishonor

[dakko]

1 minute ago, Discipline Before Dishonor said:

So... In your mind, this constitutes abusive verbiage? For real? Like... Snowflake mentality much?

And it continues. Are you actually saying that you are unaware that your speech is inflammatory? I am blocking you so that I'm not tempted to engage further.

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

4 minutes ago, dakko said:

And it continues. Are you actually saying that you are unaware that your speech is inflammatory? I am blocking you so that I'm not tempted to engage further.

God bless you, go find a juice box that you can drink in your safe space

[williams_482]

I would have expected someone who plays permadeath to be very careful about managing risky situations? You only get one chance, so you completely avoid dangerous situations when possible, or enter them deliberately only with careful preparation. Having watched the closing minutes of your video, that's not what happened here. I agree with the poster upthread who said this situation was completely avoidable. Attacking that bear the way you did seemed outright reckless. 

Bears are supposed to be things you avoid to the best of your ability. Running into one unexpectedly should be an "oh, SHIT" situation. They aren't unbeatable, but you need some combination of many ranged weapons, prepared traps, and considerable skill to take one on. I don't doubt that you are experienced with fighting animals in Vintage Story, but here you were overconfident about how much room you had to work with and got it slightly but fatally wrong. 

If you let that bear go about it's merry way, you would have been fine. If you gave it 15 blocks of space, threw one of those spears, and then ran to your prepared defenses: probably still fine. What you actually did? I'm sure sometimes, maybe even most of the time, it works out. But sometimes things don't go exactly as you expect, and then this happens. That's why it's important to give yourself a margin of error. 

Very few people are good enough at dealing with bears that they can win 100% of the time when out in the open equipped with two flint spears and a backpacked falx. I'm not totally certain anyone is, forum legend Thorfinn included. The fact that you aren't (yet?) at that that level is hardly a black mark against you, but it's not damnation on the game either. 

For what it's worth, I'm sympathetic to your complaints about temporal storms. Sympathetic enough that I just shut them off in my games, while you have apparently opted to install a mod that implements the behavior you want. That's great! Nothing wrong with that, nor with installing other mods to customize your experience to a level of difficulty that feels fair for a permadeath playstyle. What is wrong, is coming in here and making nasty comments about the developers, then lashing out at people here who didn't agree with you takes. 

[Zaldaryon]

Let's try to keep this constructive - I suggest to all the people in the subject to avoid personal attacks. Critics on the game is fine - on the game.

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

8 hours ago, williams_482 said:

I would have expected someone who plays permadeath to be very careful about managing risky situations? You only get one chance, so you completely avoid dangerous situations when possible, or enter them deliberately only with careful preparation. Having watched the closing minutes of your video, that's not what happened here. I agree with the poster upthread who said this situation was completely avoidable. Attacking that bear the way you did seemed outright reckless. 

Bears are supposed to be things you avoid to the best of your ability. Running into one unexpectedly should be an "oh, SHIT" situation. They aren't unbeatable, but you need some combination of many ranged weapons, prepared traps, and considerable skill to take one on. I don't doubt that you are experienced with fighting animals in Vintage Story, but here you were overconfident about how much room you had to work with and got it slightly but fatally wrong. 

If you let that bear go about it's merry way, you would have been fine. If you gave it 15 blocks of space, threw one of those spears, and then ran to your prepared defenses: probably still fine. What you actually did? I'm sure sometimes, maybe even most of the time, it works out. But sometimes things don't go exactly as you expect, and then this happens. That's why it's important to give yourself a margin of error. 

Very few people are good enough at dealing with bears that they can win 100% of the time when out in the open equipped with two flint spears and a backpacked falx. I'm not totally certain anyone is, forum legend Thorfinn included. The fact that you aren't (yet?) at that that level is hardly a black mark against you, but it's not damnation on the game either. 

For what it's worth, I'm sympathetic to your complaints about temporal storms. Sympathetic enough that I just shut them off in my games, while you have apparently opted to install a mod that implements the behavior you want. That's great! Nothing wrong with that, nor with installing other mods to customize your experience to a level of difficulty that feels fair for a permadeath playstyle. What is wrong, is coming in here and making nasty comments about the developers, then lashing out at people here who didn't agree with you takes. 

I can win 100% of the time against a black bear, I have a higher chance of dying while fighting a male deer. It's only brown bears that seem wildly inconsistent and broken. Last night in creative I managed to kill two brown bears with a flint spear by running backwards, hitting them twice to knock them back, then slightly rotating 30 degrees, doing that over and over again. But the third brown bear, with the darker fur color? Complete pattern break. Same strategy, same pattern, different result, killed me four times in a row, as though he was just faster than the other two brown bears, or had more reach, or something. Maybe it has to do with how combat is initiated, like maybe if I strike first then the animal's wandering speed gets added to its aggression speed in some sort of glitch, but if they aggress upon me unprovoked then they switch from their wandering speed to their aggression speed as intended, that's my only theory right now. But something caused the results to be different between brown bears, they may very well be spawning with different stats or some sort of speed spread, reach spread, or something else, whether intended or unintended. But my research results in creative could be easily replicated and I could produce video evidence.

Edited December 12, 2025 by Discipline Before Dishonor

[Akiro the Necromancer]

On 12/11/2025 at 6:39 PM, Discipline Before Dishonor said:

Brown bears and black bears can outrun humans in real life. Why can I easily outrun a black bear in vintage story and increase the gap between us, but not accomplish the same with a brown bear? The player should be able to outrun both of them or neither of them, you shouldn't be able to outrun one yet unable to outrun the other. Every time you encounter a brown bear, it's a terrain roll. You either have good terrain and can escape it alive, or you don't, and can't. He runs fast enough where you pretty much have to have completely flat ground to lose him, or you need many small hills that you can jump up over and over again to increase the gap; But eventually those little hills run out, and you have to go down. Funny part is, when you go downhill, he gains on you QUICK. I got two-shot by a brown bear at the end of this stream because I was running downhill toward a bear-killing trap that I'd built. I was running at 110% speed with no mobility reductions, and yet he caught up to me anyway and killed me instantly. Mind you, my mistake is playing this game permadeath, I get that, but I feel like if brown bears were simply nerfed in speed, then this game would become permadeath viable - that, and, making it so you can prevent spawns of drifters in your base during temporal storms via the light level mechanic. As it stands now, 80% of my deaths are at the hands of brown bears, 15% are at the hands of drifters spawning in my base during temporal storms, and 5% are due to other circumstances like deers, wolves and cave-ins. The game can still be fun without keeping that stupidly overpowered enemy in the form of a brown bear. Brown bears and black bears both equally run at around 35 mph in real life, more than enough to outrun a human. Black bears should be able to outrun me, yet they can't, you know why? Because they're balanced properly. It's a game. In order to be fun, it can't be too realistic. That's how game balance works. Brown bears being that fast is just a really bad decision, or an oversight, both of which cause me to seethe with utter contempt for the developers. I hate these decisions because they basically take what would otherwise be a perfectly balanced permadeath experience full of fulfillment and wonder, and utterly spoil it.  Any port in a storm, we need a port to endure temporal storms. Light level should be that port, the safe haven. Brown bears shouldn't be any more dangerous than black bears, and I know polar bears probably have the same speed as brown bears do. I want to keep playing this game in my livestreams because I have a thousand people tuning in every day to watch it, and I've probably made the devs a lot of cash by encouraging people to buy the game through my adventures. I love the game so much. But honestly I can't cope with the broken nature of brown bears anymore, nor the fact that you can't have a safe base during temporal storms. Mods aren't the answer because mods break, "Weather the Storm" has glitches. A brown bear speed nerf might be possible, but I haven't tried it. It's still highly discouraging. An open message to the devs from a well-meaning but understandably frustrated fan of their game: Please make room in the next update for a brown bear nerf, for the love of God, please, and while you're at it, please make it so light level effects temporal storm spawns too. Fix these problems. 

 

Why both or neither? Brown bears are bigger and faster. Git gud. 

[Blaiyze]

Ah yes, ye olde Content Creator trying to swing around the wallet proclaiming their word should be worth gold, therefore bend to my whims - argument.

Sir, no one here knows nor cares about your streams. Your frustration however is valid - we've all been roflstomped by the silent nuke that is Brown Bears on more than one occasion. Thankfully in the latest update they've at least made it so they make noise so we can hear their approach/presence much sooner than accidentally happening across them and being nuked before you get a chance to respond. Playing as a Hunter will give you the fleet foot to be able to outrun them - which is what I usually play.

In your case, might I point you in the direction of the world options where you can tune down animal strength? Not the cleanest resolution but would at the very least, make it so your permadeath runs don't end by being one-tapped. Or you could adjust creature hostility to passive unless attacked/provoked, which would do away with being chased unexpectedly when just exploring in the first place.
You came in here d!ck swinging and started with the abusive language and are now "shocked Pikachu face" that you're met with the same level of hostility? You went the dishonor route very quickly.

Pot, meet kettle. Consequences for thine own actions.

Edited March 17 by Blaiyze

[Silfrenbirce]

On 12/11/2025 at 11:07 AM, Discipline Before Dishonor said:

I'm only saying this as someone who wants the game to succeed: There's a massive audience of potential players who want a balanced permadeath experience from this game, and I've made it look appealing to a lot of people during my streams. But they've also seen how broken it is when brown bears trivialize an entire 30 hour playthrough, or how dumb it is when a high level drifter spawns into your base during a temporal storm and one-shots you despite the full suit of bear armor you're currently wearing, just because you forgot to put a single piece of dry grass on the floor. These are potential customers being turned away from the game because of bad decisions regarding the game's balance. It doesn't have to change, this is just advice, in the end it's the game's financial bottom line and if the devs don't want to cater to permadeath audiences... 

LOL - no you're not just saying this as someone trying to help the Devs.  Your entire first post made it clear that it's about your personal experience of the game.  No need to come back and try to spin it as you trying to hand out friendly advice - with the oh-so-casually tossed out lines about how much money you've personally helped the Devs make.

I mean, look.  I hate the bears in this game, too.  Generally speaking I hate bears in every game.  And it is my eternal wish that game Devs would cease and desist with coding black bears to be on the same level as grizzlies.  Black bears are extremely well known for being shy cowards. The vast majority of human and black bear encounters typically end with the human and bear running in opposite directions.  Realistically, black bears are only dangerous if they're cornered and can't run, or you've been a dumbass and gotten too close to a cub.  But you'd never know that if your sole experience of black bears came from every survival video game ever. But that's the rub.  

Bears on default settings are fast and if they catch you, they will take you down in about two swipes.  The game already has a number of configurable options for you to give yourself a fighting chance.  Perhaps, if you are going to play a permadeath run, you should avail yourself of those already-available tweaks in order to make permadeath a viable option.

And yes, your comments were needlessly abrasive and confrontational.  Rather than try to engage with people civilly, you peppered your comments with juvenile crap like "there's no nice way to tell you you're wrong," and accusing people of being contrarian for the sake of it, telling them that they're always going to choose to disagree with you on principle rather than admit that you ever have a point.  You led with declaring that you're objectively correct and auto-negating every comment suggesting otherwise with "you'll never admit it anyway."  That kind of argumentative grandstanding isn't going to endear you to anyone on these forums and frankly it isn't going to do much to make people interested in your channel, either.

Edited March 17 by Silfrenbirce

[Teh Pizza Lady]

guys chill, I'm pretty sure he can't respond to you even if he wanted to.

[Nisaba]

Watched the video. That was definitely a case of FAFO.
Brown bears working as intended. Leave the grizzly alone unless you really know what you're doing. And a permadeath run isn't the place to found out.

Poor choices were made.

Edited March 18 by Nisaba

[Thorfinn]

There's no way I would take him on with that gear. If for no other reason than I have no inventory space, so it is just taking a big risk for no gain. Losing strategy.

If you want to stab him, though, you need better terrain. Or at least I do. I wouldn't have done it at all without some trees or bushes around to use to slow him down. And run uphill, not down. Every step up slows him down a bit, and if you manage all the jumps, I'm pretty sure you can get away. Don't know for absolute certain, because I don't engage them without having at least some advantage, or at least a reason.

Incidentally, study that a bit. It shows many of the actions he can take where he's not just a murder machine. Figure out under what circumstances you can just run behind him and get away. Yes, since I don't record, it took hundreds of deaths to figure it out, but here is your training film.

[EDIT]

Someone posted a video of someone who can probably manage killing bears in a similar situation. Raven Gaming Labs, I think? He obviously spent a lot of time figuring out exactly when to sidestep, and how wide a berth you have to give those claws.

Edited March 18 by Thorfinn

[Silfrenbirce]

6 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

And run uphill, not down. Every step up slows him down a bit...

I did think that that was the first and biggest mistake.  Running downhill, it just seems fairly obvious to me that gravity is going to be on the side of the hyper-aggressive animal that is already naturally faster than the human.

[Grish]

3 plus months later lol

The op was last active in Feb to boot.Hell even he quit worrying about it.

[Thorfinn]

On 3/18/2026 at 3:55 PM, Grish said:

3 plus months later lol

The op was last active in Feb to boot.Hell even he quit worrying about it.

Doesn't really matter so far as the content goes. 

You may not have noticed that the guy who necroed the thread was, @Akiro the Necromancer?

[Grish]

So you noticed a 3 month old thread was necroed by none other then the Chronicler of Conan and still responded to the original poster ?

That is even better.

Akiro deserves a level up, but the best I can do is a cookie

[Thorfinn]

Technically, I wasn't responding to him. For whatever reason, the @ tag finally appeared in my notifications, so I wanted to see what the kerfuffle was all about.

FWIW, yeah, I did notice the necro, even without @Teh Pizza Lady's reminder. Necroing posts just doesn't bother me all that much, so long as it's still relevant. And, you have to admit, getting mauled by bears is still a thing in VS... 

[Emeal]

I liked the part where he saw the Apex Predator, shouted "bear!", walked up to it and then decided to stab it with a flint spear and run.

Absolute Cinema! But I usually don't do this. I prefer the safe method for the badass method.

Edited March 26 by Emeal

[Broccoli Clock]

I see that in the patch notes for 1.22 they have amended the bear attack range...

Quote

Tweak: Bear seeking ranges reduced. Bear attack ranges are now shorter and different for different sizes of bear

..I do wonder if the hitbox and the actual melee range (rather than the aggro range) will be altered too.

I've been merc'ed by bears far too often, even as someone you'd probably consider an experienced player. I find their stealth and melee range to be problems, although with that said I realise that the hit boxes don't seem to be that good for all sorts of things. Not just the bears.

If I had to change things with the bears it would be their logic, and I think there should be a big difference between how aggressive bears are dependent on the time of year. That might already be the case, just throwing it out.