firearm ?

[manixskyn]

are you going to add guns? I think it would be nice since hunting in the game is super fun to do

[TristamIzumi]

I personally think we should see better bows and probably crossbows before we see guns added to the game. I also see the progression from ore bombs to shrapnel bombs before we see guns as well. But fleshing out the combat, especially the ranged stuff is definitely welcome.

[manixskyn]

yeah that would be great especially for firearms in my opinion

[l33tmaan]

I really want combat to deal more damage (on all sides), so firearms had better ANNIHILATE anything I land a shot on. I'm talking one-shotting corrupt drifters here.

[RobinHood]

And for guns we need new resources like salpeter. But yes, first we need better Bows / Crossbows. Black powder consists on average of 75% saltpeter, 10% sulfur and 15% charcoal. Mobs with ranged attack would be also fine (like pillagers in MC).

 

And for bullets we need lead (we have this I think). And if we have one day also werwolves  e.g. as enemy also silverbullets

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by RobinHood

[AngryRob]

I want fire arms, and i want tiers of fire arms. i want to to go from hand cannons to revolvers and maybe even autoloaders. We have gun powder, but it is only used for a handful of stuff, and we have all these machining things. We also have lead, and very few things to use it with. 

Here is the thing, right now maybe guns would break the balance, but what about later? what exactly is under the ground? how many more mobs will come out during the temporal storms? What else is out there in the dark nights? with fire arms we can unlock all sorts of crazy shennigans, like werewolf hunting, tom foolery, and maybe even require artillery to shoot down temporal dragons...  

[RobinHood]

I have also an other suggestion for werwolfes, they should be friendly ncp too e.g. villager - only at daylight, but you don't wish meet them in the night.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by RobinHood

[YangKoete]

I agree above at the notion that we need better ranged options first. 

Atalatl could be fun to make the spears have more range/more power for a primitive way to improve spear-throwing. 

There's also variations of bows to make, and with the sorta steampunk/early-colonial era Vintage Story seems to have, stuff like an arbalest (a crank-strung crossbow) would fit right in. Slow to reload, but dang is it strong. Meanwhile your simple longbow or recurve bow would be faster, but would suffer a bit when it comes to stopping power. 

[Thalius]

Honestly, I think advanced firearms would ruin the experience for me.  Even black powder rifles might be a bit too much, but if it were a challenge to acquire the materials for ammunition, then perhaps you might be able to make powder rifles work, but I doubt it.

When I envision firearms in the VS world, I picture hand cannons at best- accuracy beyond short range targets would need to be horrid, or damage scaling down quickly the farther away a target is.  Up close they could be brutal, but they would be meant for close contact or multiple targets in a close group.

To expand on that technology maybe have some small to larger artillery cannons, and grape shot as an option- basically the cannon version of buckshot, and useful when shooting at multiple targets that are in a generally small target area.  Until we have some larger target to take down or enemy camps or strongholds of some kind to assault, I don't really see the use in larger artillery cannons anyway.

But PLEASE, no rifles or auto loaders in the core game.

Just my two coppers worth on the idea...

~TH~

Edited April 19, 2021 by Thalius

[AngryRob]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:11 AM, Thalius said:

Honestly, I think advanced firearms would ruin the experience for me.  Even black powder rifles might be a bit too much, but if it were a challenge to acquire the materials for ammunition, then perhaps you might be able to make powder rifles work, but I doubt it.

When I envision firearms in the VS world, I picture hand cannons at best- accuracy beyond short range targets would need to be horrid, or damage scaling down quickly the farther away a target is.  Up close they could be brutal, but they would be meant for close contact or multiple targets in a close group.

To expand on that technology maybe have some small to larger artillery cannons, and grape shot as an option- basically the cannon version of buckshot, and useful when shooting at multiple targets that are in a generally small target area.  Until we have some larger target to take down or enemy camps or strongholds of some kind to assault, I don't really see the use in larger artillery cannons anyway.

But PLEASE, no rifles or auto loaders in the core game.

Just my two coppers worth on the idea...

~TH~

You say that now, but what happens if the tech tree advances a bit? Autoloaders are very much a steam punk weapon, and then there are the new drifters, the ones with the nasty ranged attack. What are you going to do? Nerdpole during a storm? shoot arrows at it? Worse still, ranged locusts, and suicide locusts? Right now the game is geared toward bronze aged difficulty, but when things ramp up, a hard to make but long ranged devastating weapon might be what is needed. 

 

Worst case scenario someone would mod it in, and then we can have a flan's gun and planes mod. 

[Thalius]

11 hours ago, AngryRob said:

You say that now, but what happens if the tech tree advances a bit? Autoloaders are very much a steam punk weapon, and then there are the new drifters, the ones with the nasty ranged attack. What are you going to do? Nerdpole during a storm? shoot arrows at it? Worse still, ranged locusts, and suicide locusts? Right now the game is geared toward bronze aged difficulty, but when things ramp up, a hard to make but long ranged devastating weapon might be what is needed. 

 

Worst case scenario someone would mod it in, and then we can have a flan's gun and planes mod. 

If/when they add mobs that require such weapons, I might change my opinion. 

Personally, I think good bows (which are planned, and steel tipped spears along with shields and such will work just fine, depending on what is added.

I like the feel of the game as it is and the direction they seem to be taking it.  If the game advances to the point where one needs advanced guns like auto-loaders and long range rifle type weapons (even the steam punk version), it will have gone in a direction I'm not sure I'd enjoy as much.

Just my opinion though.

~TH~

Oh, and as for "nerdpoling"- I despise it and am looking for a way to alter the reach of drifters with blades and bars growing out of their arms so that you can't "nerdpole" on two blocks. I also want give deepdrifters the ability to climb a bit.  Pillaring up (or nerdpoling as you called it), should not be a completely secure option, in my opinion.

Again, just my opinion.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Thalius

[l33tmaan]

I really wouldn't want to see anything beyond muskets and single-fire pistols. Maybe hand cannons, but that's pretty similar to a musket, IMO. Either way, the ethos should be the same - bows are faster than crossbows, which are faster than guns... but each deals progressively more damage, too. A high-end bow should be an acceptable alternative to a cannon that takes 10-15 seconds to reload.

[Thalius]

When I think hand cannon, I picture something like this:
 

[l33tmaan]

Yeah, that's what I meant. That's about as far as I'd like firearms to go.

Edited April 22, 2021 by l33tmaan

[AngryRob]

How deep do we want to go? so we have gears, we have gunpowder, if this is steam punk, then why not a jules verne style "journey to the moon" ? where you get one shot to hit the moon with your moon cannon, and from there gather specific moon metal, build a return moon cannon, and shoot your way back before you run out of oxygen in your moon suit? A steampunk themed galticraft if you will.... 

I mean, if i can't have autoloaders for those occasional aggravating moments, then at least give me moon cannons. 

[Bran]

Any black powder firearms in Vintage Story would have to be balanced in a way that fits the gameplay design, and that means *attention to detail in the mechanics of how they operate.*

You would never carry around a black powder firearm already loaded, for risk of it fouling or going off unintentionally.  This means it wouldn't be practical to do the pirate cliche of carrying a bandolier of loaded pistols.

Black powder firearm mechanisms are not even remotely reliable.  A badly made black powder firearm is as much a danger to your enemy as yourself.

 

To give an example of how this would look in the game,  let's use a matchlock, one of the earliest forms of a proper musket as an example.

Matchlocks should be creatable out of Bronze, Iron, or Steel.  It should however be gated behind steel tech.  Probably a special type of tool that would be used to forge the fine-scale springs and mechanical parts to make it work.  When you have created your matchlock musket.  The gun would take paper cartridges (crafted with beeswax, lead bullets made with a mold, blasting powder, and of course paper).

When loaded, the gun starts a countdown timer, depending on the metal used to create the gun, and durability, that is no longer than 10 minutes, but for a low durability bronze musket, should be quite short.  The timer is reduced by 8 minutes if you enter water. and the wick also would go out and need to be relit by crafting the gun with a torch. After the timer expires, the gun is fouled and will not fire until it is reloaded.

Furthermore, when a gun's durability is low enough that it would break on its next use, it instead will explode in a shower of disorienting sparks and do a fair bit of damage to the user, as well as generate a fair bit of smoke.  Furthermore, smoothbore muskets are not the most accurate tools.  More accurate than portrayed in a lot of media, definitely not as accurate as a bow, so you may as well just miss.

 

However, when you do successfully fire the gun by taking the necessary precautions and time spent to load it properly, you are rewarded with likely the single most damaging attack type in the game, likely capable of killing or severely injuring a player through even steel body armor.  and all of this locked behind realism, a considerable time investment and game mechanics that create an environment where managing to actually shoot the gun is a reward in of itself.  In this way, I think black powder firearms could be made a very fitting and enjoyable part of Vintage Story.

[RobinHood]

This would be the strongest weapon. But

But the weapon should also have weaknesses. misfires (if you know Battle For Wesnoth, and you know the thunderer-dwarf, its very scary if he got a misfire). Not every shot works, simply through wet, inconsistent gunpowder. The wetter the environment/seraph, the greater the chance of a misfire. Misfires are very scary, you think, you are a god, you think you can kill the most dangerous drifter, but shit, misfire ....

Player/environment dry - 25% rmisfires. Player/environment wet 50%, player/environment very wet 75% misfire.

Bullets should be melted with lead/silver. Ignition with black powder.

Another weak point, but a dangerous ricochets, especially when the bullet hits rocks/stones/metals.

Warning shots should also be possible with the gun. Player shoots in the air and dangerous animals like wolves flee and stay away from the player for an hour or two.

The weapon could also be used to fire flares. Interesting for multiplayer and to illuminate the environment. Signal colors could be green, red and yellow.

Edited May 23, 2022 by RobinHood

[setne550]

Talking about firearms when we still don't had crossbows yet.

But I do agree that making them and ammo should require a lot of stuff.

[Garjouan]

I also would like to see firearms (details below). I don't think they should have a missfire rate of 75%, even 25% is way to high in normal conditions. Depending on the material they're made of, however they could have a rather rapid rate of breaking. They should be more of a late game "one hit one kill" thing, with comparatively long loading time. Good for hunting, not so great for fighting.

 

[Stroam]

While a very popular suggestion, won't ever be in the base game.