Development update, September 2025

[Echo Weaver]

4 hours ago, Guimoute said:

It's still tied to fish existing so I'm not sure how you would make it overpowered. You can see it as an alternative to the spear-fishing that already exists, not as a magical food source.

They were replying to my comment, which was explicitly about a fishing system like Minecraft's, which is not tied to existing fish. 

[Steel General]

I think the key to river generation is to generate land in multiple stages of detail depending on distance.

When a piece of land is generating, it should include the generation of its continental divide, even if it's so distant no detail near it is being defined. On islands this would be a very short line. This sets the directionality of rivers - you don't even need to find the coast to which it flows (and/or falling down a hole to become an underground river, but that should be pretty rare) - the headwaters and the branching will always happen in the direction of the divide, whatever path gets generated in between. This will enable rivers to make sense without falling into the same generation trap that arises from procedural dungeons, indefinite iterations.

It would be awesome if heavy rains generate temporary flows and puddles that will soak away, but this might be necessary to producing good headwaters terrain.

Note: the continental divide need not be the highest point of the continent, and there's nothing wrong with a landmass being multiple mushed continents, each with its own divide.

[Kaldo]

Everyone is (justifiably) so excited about rivers (and I am too) but nobody talking about elevators? I would love more uses for mechanical power and having an elevator would be an absolutely phenomenal use of it, I love mechanical and functional stuff like that. 

It's an optimistic roadmap and I know we shouldn't take anything on it for granted but I really hope you pull it off, these are all exciting and meaningful changes I'd be looking forward to!

Since I'm a relative newcomer can someone chime in and say how long did 1.21 take in total, what kind of a timeframe are we looking at if this is comparable to that patch? 

Edited October 5, 2025 by Kaldo

[TabebuiaChrysotricha]

29 minutes ago, Steel General said:

I think the key to river generation is to generate land in multiple stages of detail depending on distance.

When a piece of land is generating, it should include the generation of its continental divide, even if it's so distant no detail near it is being defined. On islands this would be a very short line. This sets the directionality of rivers - you don't even need to find the coast to which it flows (and/or falling down a hole to become an underground river, but that should be pretty rare) - the headwaters and the branching will always happen in the direction of the divide, whatever path gets generated in between. This will enable rivers to make sense without falling into the same generation trap that arises from procedural dungeons, indefinite iterations.

It would be awesome if heavy rains generate temporary flows and puddles that will soak away, but this might be necessary to producing good headwaters terrain.

Note: the continental divide need not be the highest point of the continent, and there's nothing wrong with a landmass being multiple mushed continents, each with its own divide.

This would involve probably rewriting large parts of or the entire worldgen code, while the idea of "continents" has been passed around and is iirc planned (which would be great to add local resources and specialties which the player has to travel to find/gather), it is not something the team is going to add any time soon.

[Thorfinn]

4 hours ago, Echo Weaver said:

They were replying to my comment, which was explicitly about a fishing system like Minecraft's, which is not tied to existing fish. 

And maybe to the fish mods, including PS, which create fish from nothing.

 

3 hours ago, Steel General said:

I think the key to river generation is to generate land in multiple stages of detail depending on distance.

My thoughts, too. Rather than mapgen completely defining a set of chunks out to view distance, it would need to do at least the first couple octaves of Perlin out to continental range, then fill in the rest of the octaves as it comes into view distance. This would allow a rough figure for a drainage basin, so if you spawned at a sea level delta, you have an estimate of how big the river should be at that point. It also means as the world gets explored, the weather on the remaining fraction of the drainage basin needs to adjust. If you have already accounted for 90% of the water at the delta in the first 50% of the basin, the rest is going to have to be much more arid than normal.

It's a total rethink of mapgen. Anything below the surface is just TBD. Kind of like the armchair understanding of quantum -- the ore "exists" as a probability field only, until you explore a cave or do a propick. It's the observing it runs oregen, and, in this metaphor, collapses the probability field.

[AHumpierRogue]

Rivers would be very exciting! Hopefully they can probably flow and travel downhill rather than just being at sea level. Obviously a lot more complex, but seeing that would be awesome. Also having a variety, from smaller streams that are a few blocks wide and deep to larger rivers that are deep enough to sail big boats on would be great.

 

Excited to see procedural dungeons as well! I am very excited for this newly christened Project Glint of course but I do definitely want to experience and enjoy adventures within Vintage Story itself.

 

[BMiBudzYT]

On 10/6/2025 at 12:28 AM, hstone32 said:

eeeehhhhh... I'm really not sure about that.

Redstone works on the other block game because, let's face it, it's really lousy survival game. It works much better as a sandbox world-builder. Redstone, therefore, is meant to be a interface through which the player can "program" the world. Using it, players can, and often do, trivialize survival tasks to near zero, so that they can refocus their entire attention on creative building instead. I think most players play survival mode mostly as a formality or for bragging rights, but they would rather skip straight to the part of their playthrough where they don't need to care about food or hostile mobs anymore. Mods try to fix this, but the implementation is never without issues. (Probably why Tyron decided to cease development on VintageCraft and start over entirely).

Vintage story in contrast, is one of the best survival games out there. While it's not free from any world building systems such as chiseling, none of the creative systems are designed in a way that lessens the survival experience over time like redstone would. The progression of vintage story isn't about trivializing survival, but instead about increasing the output of survival tasks, so that players are more capable of exploring the world as time goes on. For example, you go from foraging for mushrooms and berries, to hunting animals, to cultivating crops. Each level in this progression cycle improves how well the player can feed themselves, meaning they can focus less on not starving, and more on metallurgy, mechanical power, and eventually the story chapters. The need for food doesn't decrease, but instead, the player's capabilities to work on things beyond just survival increase. This is Vintage Story's comparative advantage, and a mechanic like redstone would ruin that in my opinion.

I'm not against the idea of expanding the mechanical power system though. I think it would be really cool if we could do so much more than just transporting items, and the helve hammer. But I hope they don't expand the system in a way that could trivialize survival in any way.

really lousy game but is considered one of the best games to play.... redstone is one of the best things for automation in games like this 

[hstone32]

5 minutes ago, BMiBudzYT said:

really lousy game but is considered one of the best games to play.

I never said it was a lousy game, I said it was a lousy survival game. 

 

11 minutes ago, BMiBudzYT said:

redstone is one of the best things for automation in games like this 

But why does the game need automation? Don't you think it might risk diminishing the gameplay design already in place? If you ask me, the mechanical power system provides sufficient automation already.

[Echo Weaver]

18 minutes ago, hstone32 said:

But why does the game need automation? Don't you think it might risk diminishing the gameplay design already in place? If you ask me, the mechanical power system provides sufficient automation already.

I agree. Windmill power trains, water power when we have rivers, and possibly steam power in the far future are our automation. It's grittier and more like real life because that's the kind of game VS is.

[Rhyagelle]

On 10/5/2025 at 7:43 AM, BMiBudzYT said:

you really need to add a redstone like mechanic to this game and a way to change how doors open and close.... would love to see carts and rails also

No, thank you. If anything, let us create energy and be able to store it. 

[hstone32]

28 minutes ago, Rhyagelle said:

No, thank you. If anything, let us create energy and be able to store it. 

I'm a huge fan of adding electricity to the game as a post chapter 3 or 4 system. Everyone else here says no, because they say the game's technology should be limited to early industrial/steam powered technology at most.

what I don't think they realize is that long before Michael Faraday invented the electromagnetic inductor in 1835, humanity had been experimenting with electrostatics since as early as ancient Greece, possibly even earlier.

[Narcosis]

On 10/5/2025 at 3:28 PM, hstone32 said:

The progression of vintage story isn't about trivializing survival, but instead about increasing the output of survival tasks, so that players are more capable of exploring the world as time goes on. For example, you go from foraging for mushrooms and berries, to hunting animals, to cultivating crops. Each level in this progression cycle improves how well the player can feed themselves, meaning they can focus less on not starving, and more on metallurgy, mechanical power, and eventually the story chapters. The need for food doesn't decrease, but instead, the player's capabilities to work on things beyond just survival increase. This is Vintage Story's comparative advantage, and a mechanic like redstone would ruin that in my opinion.

I'm not against the idea of expanding the mechanical power system though. I think it would be really cool if we could do so much more than just transporting items, and the helve hammer. But I hope they don't expand the system in a way that could trivialize survival in any way.

A rope & pulley system would be rad further down the development line to create more complicated mechanical contraptions. We already have clutches, transmissions and brakes. It might also become a step to later implement belts and beginnings for Jonas-derived advanced mechanical devices, like the ones we saw in the Library.

[DUCATISLO]

2 hours ago, hstone32 said:

I'm a huge fan of adding electricity to the game as a post chapter 3 or 4 system. Everyone else here says no, because they say the game's technology should be limited to early industrial/steam powered technology at most.

and those people are stupid since we alredy have electricity in this game as decoration props or enemies like just look at the locusts and bell. let alone Jonas tech unless it's gonna be some other type of energy. but still...even the tuning spear and teleporter device looks like it uses electricity. idk 

also these are the same people that call VS steampunk instead of clockpunk but tbh this game dosent even have a punk fell to it soo I just find that weird if people call it X punk whatever.

 

Edited October 6, 2025 by DUCATISLO

[Michaloid]

16 hours ago, Echo Weaver said:

I agree. Windmill power trains, water power when we have rivers, and possibly steam power in the far future are our automation.

Not to mention that elevators will be thrown into the mix, so i'm seeing some epic designs in the future.

[Michaloid]

11 hours ago, DUCATISLO said:

but still...even the tuning spear and teleporter device looks like it uses electricity

They use Prima Materia. Not electricity, but that's a whole can of worms i'm not going to spoil further.

[ifoz]

43 minutes ago, Michaloid said:

Not to mention that elevators will be thrown into the mix, so i'm seeing some epic designs in the future.

They had better make cool click-clack noises as they go up/down if they use gears 

[Aksha]

On 10/5/2025 at 8:28 PM, hstone32 said:

Using it, players can, and often do, trivialize survival tasks to near zero, so that they can refocus their entire attention on creative building instead.

However, redstone allows you to create complex logic circuits, something I miss in Vintage Story. Building dungeons or ancient tombs full of dangerous traps, retractable bridges, and mechanical doors is impossible. I'd really like to... Are these capabilities really inseparable from making survival easier?

[Maelstrom]

17 hours ago, hstone32 said:

I'm a huge fan of adding electricity to the game as a post chapter 3 or 4 system. Everyone else here says no, because they say the game's technology should be limited to early industrial/steam powered technology at most.

Everyone's opinion doesn't really matter.   The devs have stated they intend end game technology to end at steam power.  The electicity that most want is an industrial use of electricity which didn't come along until the 19th century, far further in the future than the devs have planned for VS.

[LadyWYT]

10 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Everyone's opinion doesn't really matter.   The devs have stated they intend end game technology to end at steam power.  The electicity that most want is an industrial use of electricity which didn't come along until the 19th century, far further in the future than the devs have planned for VS.

This is correct. However, I can't pass up the chance to be a bit cheeky and point out that technically we already have electricity in the game, because that is what lightning is. 

 

1 hour ago, Aksha said:

However, redstone allows you to create complex logic circuits, something I miss in Vintage Story. Building dungeons or ancient tombs full of dangerous traps, retractable bridges, and mechanical doors is impossible. I'd really like to... Are these capabilities really inseparable from making survival easier?

I wouldn't say it's inseparable, given that it would be late game content only and require quite a bit of effort to get there. However, I will also note that it's quite easy to jump from stone age to iron and steel, if you know what you're doing, and once you have iron and steel everything else is fairly neglible in terms of challenge(which is fine as a reward for putting in so much effort).

I think the main issue with it though is as @Maelstrom says--the devs have stated end game tech to end at early forms of steam power, which makes sense given that the setting is the late Middle Ages. Yes, there is Jonas tech, which has a lot of potential, but that runs on temporal flux/prima materia as @Michaloid noted, and that stuff is...well, I'm not sure anyone really knows what it is. And I do agree with the observation that when the subject of electricity comes up, most players seem to be after actual industrial purpose use similar to what tech mods in the other block game offer. It would fit an industrial setting, but not so much a medieval one.

In any case, when Jonas tech is expanded further, I wouldn't be surprised to see some capabilities similar to redstone, but I also don't expect such tech to ever be fully automated, or easy/cheap to build. One of the main focuses of gameplay is the homesteading, which is fairly hands-on even late in the game. Pushing the player to develop heavy industry flies in the face of that focus.

[Aksha]

13 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

And I do agree with the observation that when the subject of electricity comes up, most players seem to be after actual industrial purpose use similar to what tech mods in the other block game offer. It would fit an industrial setting, but not so much a medieval one.

Oh, I absolutely don't want industrial technology here, especially easy-to-craft ones, especially early in the game! Traps and automatic doors can work not only on redstone; other mechanics can be devised. Maybe even mechanical power and a primitive system of levers and counterweights. But, to be honest, I really want to attach some kind of spring to the front door - even a Jonas coil - just so it would close behind me on its own.))))

Edited October 7, 2025 by Aksha

[LadyWYT]

Just now, Aksha said:

Oh, I absolutely don't want industrial technology here, especially easy-to-craft ones, especially early in the game! Traps and automatic doors don't need redstone to operate. Maybe even mechanical power and a primitive system of levers and counterweights. But, to be honest, I really want to attach some kind of spring to the front door - even a Jonas coil - just so it would close behind me on its own.))))

Oh yeah, now something like a spring-loaded door that closes behind you automatically, that I can see. For a more complex door, I could see a steam boiler similar to what exists in the first story location, that is powered by temporal flux and coal. I think that kind of door would mostly be a vanity item...and given how VS is, probably also come with the drawback of being unable to open it if it's not powered. 

[Aksha]

1 minute ago, LadyWYT said:

For a more complex door, I could see a steam boiler similar to what exists in the first story location, that is powered by temporal flux and coal. I think that kind of door would mostly be a vanity item...and given how VS is, probably also come with the drawback of being unable to open it if it's not powered. 

Oh, to operate a door on a steam engine, you need steam, coal, and a servant to throw coal into the firebox so you can open it. That's a very, very big luxury.)) It's much simpler to use springs, levers, and counterweights, which don't require energy and were available even in the Copper Age.

[Vratislav]

On 10/5/2025 at 9:42 PM, Thorfinn said:

it would need to do at least the first couple octaves of Perlin out to continental range, then fill in the rest of the octaves as it comes into view distance.

I do not want to discuss a technology I am not much familiar with. The actual Rivers mod defines areas (called "tectonic plates"), that probably works like continents, where rivers are generated in one run. Then terrain is set up but it cannot fully avoid crossing of rivers and hills, so tunnels are rough solution (at least as I understood it from my very superficial reading of the mod's source code).

To provide really believable landscape, there is rule that water always flows down, and the landscape respects this, that is a bit against random generation methods, at least as I know. Of course, there is a lot things like meanders, canyons or rapids, that have reasons why they were created (like faults, or so) and whole concept of erosion. And this is a question how the terrain generation with rivers should aspire to be based on these "realistic" principles, or how clever tricks will be used to imitate them. 

I am sure that it will not be painful, if large rivers (that in real landscape flows with inclination much smaller than 1%) will be in the sea level, if they will pretend to flow and valleys will be generated with more random elements than in the actual mods. This will allow to simplify rules. In smaller scale, small rivers or streams (probably unusable for sailing) that will be not very long (up to like 100-200 blocks) can be inclined with occasional rapids that will increase the water level. This may cover the most of the landscape. Still, ravines or even river tunnels can be generated, it happens rarely in real world and it will work if it will be made with some noise. Also we are in game, so landscape that is a little wild is fully appropriate.

Then, given by terrain generation, a rock strata can be developed from it. It would be nice to have deep layers of sediments in the valleys of wide rivers and the mountaineous regions had harder rocks just under the surface. 

[LadyWYT]

10 minutes ago, Vratislav said:

In smaller scale, small rivers or streams (probably unusable for sailing) that will be not very long (up to like 100-200 blocks) can be inclined with occasional rapids that will increase the water level.

You could likely expand this idea further, potentially, to the small ponds that are dotted across the landscape, and have them go dry during certain times of the year. Those ponds could perhaps be distinguished from others by placing a different muddy block as the base for the water blocks--any water block that has that particular mud block as the bottom will fluctuate water level.

As nice as it sounds though, I'm not sure how feasible it is to code.

[ImHereToProcrastinate]

Hi, since the dev update, I've been wondering about how waterwheels and rivers could/will be implemented. Maybe some of my thoughts will be of interest to someone. Because I feel like the current implementation of water really dampens my excitement when it comes to the waterwheel. Because in reality, oftentimes waterwheels need a bunch of associated waterworks. This would be something like digging an alternate river channel that's then dammed and routed over the wheel, or finding a natural place suitable for a waterwheel and others. You can plop an undershot waterwheel in the middle of the river, but it's quite inefficient and IMO, kinda boring. So in real life, the disadvantage of waterwheel is that it can't be used just anywhere. Just like a windmill in a deep valley, waterwheel on a flat land with slowly moving water isn't very useful. It's even less useful without any moving body of water, such as a desert.

A price to pay for inheriting the water mechanics from MC means all of this is waved off with the mighty bucket. As long as you have one singular water source block, from which you take one bucket of water, you have created infinite water. You can take it anywhere. A Nile river in your pocket for the cost of like 5 planks and a string. And with waterwheel, presumably, infinite uninterrupted power source is in your hands. So, if you insist that water 'physics' stay the same as they are, in terms of game mechanics, 'the price' for the waterwheel has to be paid elsewhere. You could make waterwheel very expensive. However, it would still be unsatisfying to see this eternal perpetum mobile once it is completed. Furthermore in a game, where grind is already an issue for many (I only play singleplayer... It's so much work to make steel by myself), this feels like a bad idea. Having to pay for maintenance is even worse, because EVERYONE hates mechanics like that.

What I'm trying to say is, that I hope a fundamental change in how water works is going to happen at some point. If only to make waterwheels interesting and not just a perpetum mobile that can be built anywhere, regardless of geography. In a game that tries to be more realistic, water already feels weird now, before it is tied to waterwheels. For example I built a kitchen in my world recently. I could have put in a barrel with water, so I can make dough, right? Well obviously I didn't. Instead, I took my bucket (10 litres), scooped up 1/5th of a barrel (50 litres). I then poured this 10 litre bucket into a hollowed out stone block (via chiselling - props to devs that this can be done and doesn't spill) and voilà, I have infinite water in my kitchen, contained in my chiseled barrel. The game mechanics are kinda incoherent in this regard. On one hand, gamified not-really-water combined with water usage which is inspired by real world clash in a bizarre way.

I cursory search on google reveals many ways to approach water in voxel game. This includes voxel water with/without pressure, directional flow etc. I understand that it's a different beast when it comes to having continuously flowing water on an infinite procedurally generated world. But I really hoped, that since minecraft realease, there popped up better suited models than 'minecraft water'. Especially considering the boom of voxel based games.

Does anybody know if the devs ever talked about water in the past? And whether changing something this fundamental about the game is even on the table?

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Edited October 8, 2025 by ImHereToProcrastinate