Regarding the impact of the crashcode put into ConfigLib and the needed clarification and explanation of the code for layman understanding

[williams_482]

18 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

You can read whatever you want into it. I was just literally saying that I recognized that you seemed like you weren't being heard so I took a similar approach that I take with my kid which is to stop, back up, listen, acknowledge, and then move on. It's a sort of "reboot" tactic that is used with people of all ages to get them out of their rut and help them move forward with their thoughts and emotions. You chose to read it the other way by being emotional about it. I can't really help you with that except to acknowledge that you feel strongly about this and I'm sorry that you've decided every response of mine to you is a personal attack. I'm just trying to be logical about this so if my rejection of emotion feels like a rejection of you, then I have no words except to again, say I'm sorry and try to move on.

Most people don't appreciate being implicitly compared to a 9 year old. People especially don't appreciate being told that you are dealing with their emotional responses using techniques that you also use to deal with your 9 year old. I wasn't involved in this part of the conversation, but I read that and immediately expected an unfavorable response. 

The pigeon comment is the same deal. Whatever the intent, it reads as if you are comparing the other person to a pigeon. That's pretty insulting.

There's also a strong undercurrent of "your response is emotional, thus your conclusion is wrong" in those posts. All of our responses to this are based in emotional reactions to facts, and "this doesn't really bother me" is no more inherently right or wrong than "this feels really bad and makes me uncomfortable." I don't think you're trying to be dismissive and abrasive, but it does read that way. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

Just now, williams_482 said:

Most people don't appreciate being implicitly compared to a 9 year old. People especially don't appreciate being told that you are dealing with their emotional responses using techniques that you also use to deal with your 9 year old. I wasn't involved in this part of the conversation, but I read that and immediately expected an unfavorable response. 

The pigeon comment is the same deal. Whatever the intent, it reads as if you are comparing the other person to a pigeon. That's pretty insulting.

There's also a strong undercurrent of "your response is emotional, thus your conclusion is wrong" in those posts. All of our responses to this are based in emotional reactions to facts, and "this doesn't really bother me" is no more inherently right or wrong than "this feels really bad and makes me uncomfortable." I don't think you're trying to be dismissive and abrasive, but it does read that way. 

Yeah, I get that. This one of those instances where I said exactly what I meant and expected everyone to take it at face value. Silly neurotypicals reading between the lines.  For what it's worth my 9 year old is a very upstanding and respectful person and has really challenged me in a lot of ways to think differently and approach problems and issues with an open mind so being compared to him is a compliment if anything... I jest, but what I said about him is true.

The problem is that I can't take back what I said. I can only try to explain my intended framing. I can't help it if people refuse to accept my explanation because they've already chosen to be offended by everything I say.

Probably time for me to exit stage left and go back to lurking.

[tiggerbiggo]

1 minute ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Yeah, I get that. This one of those instances where I said exactly what I meant and expected everyone to take it at face value. Silly neurotypicals reading between the lines.  For what it's worth my 9 year old is a very upstanding and respectful person and has really challenged me in a lot of ways to think differently and approach problems and issues with an open mind so being compared to him is a compliment if anything... I jest, but what I said about him is true.

The problem is that I can't take back what I said. I can only try to explain my intended framing. I can't help it if people refuse to accept my explanation because they've already chosen to be offended by everything I say.

Probably time for me to exit stage left and go back to lurking.

I'm pretty neurodivergent actually.

"I'm getting so fed up with people assuming they know what I think and how I feel about this when their assumptions are WRONG"

Sounds like you need to make less assumptions yourself. You assumed my intentions were bad and conveniently also, after I made it clear that I don't want their life to be ruined you just left that alone and didn't address it. The whole having your cake and eating it. You want to be able to accuse my position of being hyperbolic, or wanting things I don't, then you don't want to acknowledge that and back down, instead choosing to call the things you don't address just not worth it.

[Thorfinn]

I'm already out of reactions for the day. Pretend I did a "Like" or "Thanks" or the incredibly rare "Wolf Bait" as appropriate.

FWIW, I'm a lot like @Teh Pizza Lady (and, frankly, most people) in that I tend to just nod at things I agree with or shrug at things not worth disagreeing with, and respond only to the points of relevant disagreement. That your company or your morals and ethics would deal with this in a given manner is potentially interesting, but irrelevant to Anego's policies. I tend to give a lot of latitude to those who are directly involved, and less so to the (IMO) hecklers.

I get that people are getting all emotional about this, though I don't really understand it. So far as I know, there have been no legs broken or pockets picked (H/T, Thomas Jefferson), but merely some angst when a modded early access game crashes. Like that's never happened before, or that it was targeted at you, personally.

I understand that you are angry. I just don't understand why, except for a few cases like server admins. Is this all just like suing for emotional distress or something? 

 

Edited yesterday at 04:57 PM by Thorfinn

[Wouju]

I have never used my forums account before, and I haven't read the entire 36 pages of this thread topic, but I imagine the entire situation has been discussed to death already (and probably got derailed off topic as well, since that's how these things go).
I just want to be the Nth person to state that adding crash code to mods is a gross violation of trust between the modder and the player, and, I firmly believe, it should never ever happen, nor be allowed to happen. And I'm surprised Maltiez wasn't thrown the book. (Unless of course there's something I/we don't know, but I don't want to theorize, at least not here.)
I think it's worth stating, and being aware, that situations like these can eventually erode the community's/playerbase's trust in the dev team/game. Not on their own of course but as a series of events, with one eventually being the last straw.
P.S. I'm strongly reminded of a very similar situation in the Starsector modding scene. Which I won't go into the details of because I'm certain someone already did. But for those out of the loop and curious I suggest doing some searching online.
P.S.S. Thanks for reading, and to the devs, I like the game.

[Michaloid]

I like waffles.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

33 minutes ago, Wouju said:

I have never used my forums account before, and I haven't read the entire 36 pages of this thread topic, but I imagine the entire situation has been discussed to death already (and probably got derailed off topic as well, since that's how these things go).
I just want to be the Nth person to state that adding crash code to mods is a gross violation of trust between the modder and the player, and, I firmly believe, it should never ever happen, nor be allowed to happen. And I'm surprised Maltiez wasn't thrown the book. (Unless of course there's something I/we don't know, but I don't want to theorize, at least not here.)
I think it's worth stating, and being aware, that situations like these can eventually erode the community's/playerbase's trust in the dev team/game. Not on their own of course but as a series of events, with one eventually being the last straw.
P.S. I'm strongly reminded of a very similar situation in the Starsector modding scene. Which I won't go into the details of because I'm certain someone already did. But for those out of the loop and curious I suggest doing some searching online.
P.S.S. Thanks for reading, and to the devs, I like the game.

It's because the book wasn't thrown at him that makes me think there's more going on that we realize, which is why I'm careful to state the facts around this situation and not delve into speculation. Clearly something is going on, but NONE of us here have a clue because we aren't intimately involved with the finer details. We can suppose, infer, predict, and even wish REALLY hard, but none of it matters until evidence proves otherwise...and the lack of evidence is really the limiting factor here.

NONE of this is to say that your concerns are invalid, but that they must fit into the known facts of the case which are that:

• Maltiez did a bad on the ModDB
• Maltiez got banned from the ModDB
• Maltiez got handslapped by his boss

And that's pretty much it. Also known facts, not relevant to the discussion, what Maltiez did could be a terminable offense for some employers, his own expressed intentions were to shutdown the cheat mod development (which he succeeded), Maltiez does not speak for Anego Studios as a whole, and @Michaloid likes waffles.

23 minutes ago, Michaloid said:

I like waffles.

Do you prefer them with fruit and whipped cream or butter and syrup? And if the latter, which kind of syrup? There is a correct answer here, btw and you will be judged for answering poorly.

[kelpiekosm]

For what it's worth, coming from someone who's trying to keep to the sidelines and lurking just to see how this pans out, I do have to appreciate that Anego Studios is offering refunds for the game. even for older players. If @tiggerbiggo's experience is shared, and they're offering refunds but still allowing free access to the game, that counts for something in my book. I can't really think of any game developers being that forthcoming with giving people their money back, at least not off the top of my head.

[Sparticus247]

23 minutes ago, kelpiekosm said:

For what it's worth, coming from someone who's trying to keep to the sidelines and lurking just to see how this pans out, I do have to appreciate that Anego Studios is offering refunds for the game. even for older players. If @tiggerbiggo's experience is shared, and they're offering refunds but still allowing free access to the game, that counts for something in my book. I can't really think of any game developers being that forthcoming with giving people their money back, at least not off the top of my head.

I'm glad @tiggerbiggo got his refund ask and that it went a good way helping alleviate some animosity. There was actually another gentleman on Reddit that was showing screenshots of them doing the same thing Even after he had already been playing for years with over a thousand hours invested in the game.

It was a good PSA for those that felt the studio didn't care, but I'd rather not post his details here because people were flaming him pretty hard about it, but you can probably find it if you search Reddit recently in the last 2 days.

Tyron comment in the official response being the below was leaving quite a bit of subtext between the lines. Boy to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.  I imagine it was reminding everyone that they weren't random subreddit moderators, they are part of an actual company that provides a product and people are giving them money.

c) I will allocate significant funding for the training of better PR/crisis communication with the dev Team and de-escalation training and clearer procedures for the moderation team.

Edited yesterday at 08:03 PM by Sparticus247
Typos

[Gandorf]

1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

It's because the book wasn't thrown at him that makes me think there's more going on that we realize, which is why I'm careful to state the facts around this situation and not delve into speculation. Clearly something is going on, but NONE of us here have a clue because we aren't intimately involved with the finer details. We can suppose, infer, predict, and even wish REALLY hard, but none of it matters until evidence proves otherwise...and the lack of evidence is really the limiting factor here.

NONE of this is to say that your concerns are invalid, but that they must fit into the known facts of the case which are that:

• Maltiez did a bad on the ModDB
• Maltiez got banned from the ModDB
• Maltiez got handslapped by his boss

And that's pretty much it. Also known facts, not relevant to the discussion, what Maltiez did could be a terminable offense for some employers, his own expressed intentions were to shutdown the cheat mod development (which he succeeded), Maltiez does not speak for Anego Studios as a whole, and @Michaloid likes waffles.

Do you prefer them with fruit and whipped cream or butter and syrup? And if the latter, which kind of syrup? There is a correct answer here, btw and you will be judged for answering poorly.

What Malitez did would get him fired almost everywhere in the IT industry or any serious company, and not just at some employer's. Breach of trust is something that is taken seriously in the official business world because loss of trust costs a lot and can have long-lasting consequences, unless you are a really big corporate entity.

For some people, this matters less; for a lot of others, this matters a lot. Humans are emotional beings by nature 

So I'm not surprised at the outcry we have seen

[Michaloid]

1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

And if the latter, which kind of syrup

Maple syrup is my go to, but i haven't tasted other ones. So, judge me throughly waffle judge.

[Meiiolri]

2 hours ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Do you prefer them with fruit and whipped cream or butter and syrup? And if the latter, which kind of syrup? There is a correct answer here, btw and you will be judged for answering poorly.

My favorite kind of waffle. :V

[Abdoola]

To the people who think I overreacted horribly: yes you are right. After a thorough consideration of what I've done, I'm ashamed of that. Yes, I fell into the same pit of "I'm a vigilante here, I know better" without thinking through of impact on the community. I'm sorry for that. And while technically what I've done is a right thing to do (I live in a country where to know of a crime and not report it, is a crime on itself), but in reality it was a horrible d1k move, and chances are, I have only contributed to the damage dealt. I truly have an outstanding talent in ruining everything I love.

Moral of the story: don't act hot-headed, no matter how righteous you think you are, if you're not 100% sure you won't be proud of your own actions tomorrow.

To the people who wanted to see Maltiez' head on a spike: sorry guys, I'm not double downing on a horrible decision. Should he be punished? Yes. Should he be facing criminal charges? No.

I'll update you if CERT ever contacts me back.

Ab-douchebag-oola, out.

Edited yesterday at 09:41 PM by Abdoola

[Teh Pizza Lady]

54 minutes ago, Michaloid said:

Maple syrup is my go to, but i haven't tasted other ones. So, judge me throughly waffle judge.

Correct!

 

27 minutes ago, Meiiolri said:

My favorite kind of waffle. :V

Also a valid choice.

4 minutes ago, Abdoola said:

To the people who think I overreacted horribly: yes you are right. After a thorough consideration of what I've done, I'm ashamed of that. Yes, I fell into the same pit of "I'm a vigilante here, I know better" without thinking through of impact on the community. And while technically what I've done is a right thing to do (I live in a country where to know of a crime and not report it, is a crime on itself), but in reality it was a horrible d1k move, and chances are, I have only contributed to the damage dealt. I truly have an outstanding talent in ruining everything I love.

Moral of the story: don't act hot-headed, no matter how righteous you think you are, if you're not 100% sure you won't be proud of your own actions tomorrow.

To the people who wanted to see Maltiez' head on a spike: sorry guys, I'm not double downing on a horrible decision. Should he be punished? Yes. Should he be facing criminal charges? No.

I'll update you if CERT ever contacts me back.

Ab-douchebag-oola, out.

No worries. I found myself recently doing the same thing I was accusing others of doing so maybe we all need to eat a bit of humble pie and just let this whole thing blow over. BTW, I live in the USA. What country are you from?

[Abdoola]

1 minute ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

What country are you from?

I'm not bringing that shame to the whole country sorry

[Teh Pizza Lady]

Just now, Abdoola said:

I'm not bringing that shame to the whole country sorry

Fair enough, I was just curious what countries exist in which failure to report a crime is a crime... like how would they even know outside of you snitching on yourself. Seems pretty wild to me, but then again, I live in America so my whole philosophy is generally "Live and let live."

[Michaloid]

20 minutes ago, Abdoola said:

To the people who think I overreacted horribly: yes you are right. After a thorough consideration of what I've done, I'm ashamed of that. Yes, I fell into the same pit of "I'm a vigilante here, I know better" without thinking through of impact on the community. I'm sorry for that. And while technically what I've done is a right thing to do (I live in a country where to know of a crime and not report it, is a crime on itself), but in reality it was a horrible d1k move, and chances are, I have only contributed to the damage dealt. I truly have an outstanding talent in ruining everything I love.

Just to say. Don't feel guilty in doing so. You did what you thought was right. And the authorities will reach their own conclusion.
That being said, if the authorities do feel like they need to pry on the case to investigate, we're more likely gonna get a delayed update, since Tyron himself oversees the code being submitted, and assures the quality in what the members create. And him being unavailable for a while for that will surely put a dampen on the speed of the update. But don't feel guilty about it, i beg.

[Mushroomancer]

1 hour ago, Abdoola said:

To the people who think I overreacted horribly: yes you are right. After a thorough consideration of what I've done, I'm ashamed of that. Yes, I fell into the same pit of "I'm a vigilante here, I know better" without thinking through of impact on the community. I'm sorry for that. And while technically what I've done is a right thing to do (I live in a country where to know of a crime and not report it, is a crime on itself), but in reality it was a horrible d1k move, and chances are, I have only contributed to the damage dealt. I truly have an outstanding talent in ruining everything I love.

Moral of the story: don't act hot-headed, no matter how righteous you think you are, if you're not 100% sure you won't be proud of your own actions tomorrow.

To the people who wanted to see Maltiez' head on a spike: sorry guys, I'm not double downing on a horrible decision. Should he be punished? Yes. Should he be facing criminal charges? No.

I'll update you if CERT ever contacts me back.

Ab-douchebag-oola, out.

If it's any consolation I don't think what you were doing was vigilantism. You were putting the onus of action in the hands of an authority rather than taking justice into your own hands. I don't think that anything islikely to come from it, just because as potential cybercrimes go this seems to have been relatively small fish in a sea of very terrible actors and considering how legal systems tend to move, it's very possible that the 'negligible' harm (in a statistical sense, I know people wasted time, but I suspect that's the kind of thing that a criminal court would push toward civil avenues if at all) is justification enough to just close the book on it by a legal authority.

[OBAMFSpike]

6 hours ago, Michaloid said:

I like waffles.

With chicken?

[OBAMFSpike]

3 hours ago, Meiiolri said:

My favorite kind of waffle. :V

Thats a hot damned waffle 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

9 minutes ago, OBAMFSpike said:

With chicken?

I see you like ordering from the secret menu at the Pizza Shack...

[OBAMFSpike]

..........maybe XD

[l33tmaan]

I just wonder that if I freaked out and slipped malware into A Culinary Artillery or Expanded Foods, would they be given to a "custodian account" or would all my mods simply be deleted from the DB? Oh well, I don't plan on finding out. 

[LadyWYT]

9 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

would they be given to a "custodian account" or would all my mods simply be deleted from the DB?

Pack them up and launch them into the nearest black hole. It's the only way. 

[greed23]

16 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

I'm already out of reactions for the day. Pretend I did a "Like" or "Thanks" or the incredibly rare "Wolf Bait" as appropriate.

FWIW, I'm a lot like @Teh Pizza Lady (and, frankly, most people) in that I tend to just nod at things I agree with or shrug at things not worth disagreeing with, and respond only to the points of relevant disagreement. That your company or your morals and ethics would deal with this in a given manner is potentially interesting, but irrelevant to Anego's policies. I tend to give a lot of latitude to those who are directly involved, and less so to the (IMO) hecklers.

I get that people are getting all emotional about this, though I don't really understand it. So far as I know, there have been no legs broken or pockets picked (H/T, Thomas Jefferson), but merely some angst when a modded early access game crashes. Like that's never happened before, or that it was targeted at you, personally.

I understand that you are angry. I just don't understand why, except for a few cases like server admins. Is this all just like suing for emotional distress or something? 

 

There's a severe difference between an early access game crashing because the code is shoddy, and an early access game crashing because one of its devs abused the implicit trust they had as a prominent modder to inject malware.

 

Trust is the issue.  It's like if your car's tires went flat because you drove over a nail accidentally left on the road vs. your best friend sneaking into your garage every night because you gave them a key, and they let the air out of your tires; only to double down and say they were only trying to stop speeders and that they were sorry they got caught.  Do you see where one really is a betray of trust, and the other is just universal randomness?