Early Game meat preservation??

[TacoDuke]

The preservation of meat requires an unusal amount of effort in game, and I think it could be improved via adding a feature where the player can build a special firepit to smoke meat as an effective way to preserve meat without so much effort.

Edited September 10, 2022 by TacoDuke

[Azuli-Bluespots]

8 hours ago, TacoDuke said:

The preservation of meat requires an unusal amount of effort in game, and I think it could be improved via adding a feature where the player can build a special firepit to smoke meat as an effective way to preserve meat without so much effort.

Man, everything here takes work, that's kind of the point of how the survival works here.

It surely would be nice to find a way to make smoked meats, but there are only three types of meat in the game and fish were added like last week. We'd still need a special way of placing wood, hay and meat together in an enclosed area, maybe like a pit kiln. You still need to harvest at the very least wood and mess with the place the smoking pit has to go.

Maaaybe when fish meat and fishing are added to the game, we could have smoked salmon eventually

[Joseph Fowler]

Youd most likely have to make a smokehouse. Also this may help you out, but cooking meat does extend its lifespan. cooked meat has at least twice the lifespan as raw meat and it last for quite a while in the vessel. its obviously not a long time, but its something. Smoking meat in real life is far more complicated than it is in games like stranded deep and green hell, and since vintage story focuses on making things highly interactive, the process of smoking meat may be similar to charcoal pit burning, or large-scale kilns where you need to build a structure and do it correctly.

If you don't want to put in effort don't play this game. Thats the whole point of realism, this game is like if Minecraft actually required skill to progress and had thoughtful and engaging game mechanics that prevented you from being bored by not being to easy, but also making many of the mechanics highly interactive and satisfying. Sorry if this sounds mean but this game is very complex so every thing is going to be like that. One of the plans is to eventually get rid of the crafting grid and replace it with something more fun. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Joseph Fowler

[TacoDuke]

1 hour ago, Joseph Fowler said:

Youd most likely have to make a smokehouse. Also this may help you out, but cooking meat does extend its lifespan. cooked meat has at least twice the lifespan as raw meat and it last for quite a while in the vessel. its obviously not a long time, but its something. Smoking meat in real life is far more complicated than it is in games like stranded deep and green hell, and since vintage story focuses on making things highly interactive, the process of smoking meat may be similar to charcoal pit burning, or large-scale kilns where you need to build a structure and do it correctly.

If you don't want to put in effort don't play this game. Thats the whole point of realism, this game is like if Minecraft actually required skill to progress and had thoughtful and engaging game mechanics that prevented you from being bored by not being to easy, but also making many of the mechanics highly interactive and satisfying. Sorry if this sounds mean but this game is very complex so every thing is going to be like that. One of the plans is to eventually get rid of the crafting grid and replace it with something more fun. 

I'd have to disagree, IRL yes it can be complicated but it is mostly a method of timing, if you cold smoke meat like cavemen did, all you really have to do is make a rack decently far above the fire, put meat on it, cover the fire with a wet cloth, and then bring the fire to a smolder for a few hours.

[Brandon Bachman]

Maybe include with this an amount of smoke that must be on meats? I was going to make a suggestion to have smoke from fire be an entity which causes suffocation if the smoke is dense enough in an enclosed space (as it would in Valheim), which would make underground pit kilns risky business and this might go along with that

[Andre Oberländer]

maybe make if you cook meat over a campfire that you can roast into a second time so its a bit burned but last like burned bread a bit longer. Its not a solution that would be too overpowered. As disadvantage it can loose 20% Nutrition.

the smoking house stuff is maybe somethink for a later patch because more complex.

[Thorfinn]

Jerky is pretty much the easiest thing in the world to make. Even birds do it, though they do it mostly with snakes. Just slice the meat into jerky-sized strips and hang it over a tree branch. Full sun is best, and you can even do it in the winter. The only real challenge is keeping critters off it.

[AngryRob]

There was a pemmican mod a while back. Pemmican, was something the native Americans made, and apperantly it was in such demand that there were small scale wars over it. Steve 1989 ate a world war 1 pemmican ration, and apparently it was still good, either that or he is an undead. 

[_Mason]

There are, like, 3 mods that add the ability to turn meat into jerky. I would say it's about time it becomes a vanilla feature. Primitive Survival I believe made it best with jerky curing by its own in your inventory like oiled pelts.

Pemmican could then be added and require cured jerky to make (I would say pounded, but the current pulverizer is everything but food-grade). I'm not sure how you would go about removing it from the cooking pot because it doesn't need a bowl, but if it's made through the use of the pot my suggested recipe is first and second slots cured jerky, third slot either fat or 0.4L honey, fourth slot optional berries. The result would be a 64-stackable item with about one and a half to one and 3/4 the nutrition of a cooked redmeat steak, but that could last an entire season at 1x spoilage rate.

Additionally I believe waxed paper isn't being used enough. An idea would be being able to wrap up to 4 steaks (raw or cooked) or pemmican and triple the shelf life. Identical packages could stack up to 16 in the inventory, some piece of mind about possibly being able to ground store by stacking the packages like bricks as well. You open a package by holding right click while it's in your hand and that returns the packaged items in your inventory, at whatever state of spoilage they're in, and there's a 50% chance the waxed paper is returned to you.

Edited October 25, 2022 by _Mason

[l33tmaan]

We don't even have paper yet. How are we going to make waxed paper?

[Hal13]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:47 AM, TacoDuke said:

yes it can be complicated but it is mostly a method of timing, if you cold smoke meat like cavemen did, all you really have to do is make a rack decently far above the fire, put meat on it, cover the fire with a wet cloth, and then bring the fire to a smolder for a few hours.

Actually you need less than that, over the medieval era they just put meat on hooks hung in the chimney and as they cooked (and / or heated the room) it got smoked over time, additionally that meat was kept safe off the ground, animals weren't able to get to it.

My suggestion would be a dedicated rack that holds up to 4 stacks of meats (could have a model showing some meat products on hooks depending on the occupied slots or just an empty and a filled model) and when there is either a burning fire pit or oven or pit kiln or really anything producing smoke particles under it with between 1 and 4 blocks of air in between rack and source of smoke, the degradation of the meats is simply halted. It could work as a drying rack in addition and the smoke would accelerate the process.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Hal13

[_Mason]

On 10/25/2022 at 5:36 PM, l33tmaan said:

We don't even have paper yet. How are we going to make waxed paper?

There is parchment, which I admit it is a little different from paper but still, you could wax it and seal things in it. If you can't make it, because so far I only went on the wiki to proof myself and I only saw parchment in trader lists, make it possible and/or increase the chance for retrieving the parchment from opening the parcel.

Edited October 30, 2022 by _Mason

[Fancysaurus]

Just to throw in my two cents, some meats can actually be aged relatively safely for a very long time. Steaks for instance have a dense enough muscle structure that bacteria can't get into more than a few inches. So it could be possible to 'dry age' some items. 

[BigBadBeef]

I understand you want more meat preservation methods for the sake of variety, what I don't understand is why you believe there is no way to preserve it early game - cooked meat, left on a spit over the fire will last 10-20 days.

Or even make a crock, fill it with hefty meat stew, then seal it with fat which will make the meat last MINIMUM of 1 year. That is achievable within the FIRST HOUR of gameplay.

I don't know where your idea of it being hard came from.

[Anthony frailey]

Because it takes two salt per meat, and 20 days of "curing", which is fine if you got time to spare and loads of salt found. 
Most players lack the time and salt. 

I got lucky found two salt vein veins , but only yielded three stacks of salt. You can only salt half a stack of meat per barrel. 
I agree there should be more sufficient ways of preserving meat a long time.

[Thorfinn]

What @BigBadBeefis talking about requires no salt and very little game time. If you find clay (either) and peat near your spawn, you can be sealing a crock of a cooked meal by dawn of day 2 that, if you just dig a 2-deep hole to put the sealed crock in, then put one of the dirt back on top to make a mini-cellar/cache, will still be good until well after winter is over. I don't really know how much longer it will last, as I usually lose interest when the game gets easy and routine so just start a new game. I've got caches of crocks of food all over the world by the time I quit. Generally I don't even bother sealing it -- food is so easy to come and lasts so long, there's no point.

[Anthony frailey]

but if you do go along, and have surpluses to store, meats do not keep as long as veggies even in sealed storage. 
it doesn't matter if its easy, or if theres enough food, its trying to minimize the spoilage and waste of resources. 
so far, its full on cook and sealing ( as you need wax or fats to do) , or salt. 

and, smoking meats requires neither of those,  taste better, better for you , and was the earliest way of meat preservation known. I simply do not think it's to far fetched to include.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Anthony frailey

[Thorfinn]

Fair enough. For those who like the look of hams and sausage hanging from the rafters, I guess it's nice decor. And I suppose if you play with longer months, and have no access to soybeans yet, and didn't set up a bunch of warming huts around your region so you can go hunting, maybe the protein sags enough to lose a couple Max HP. I just can't see me ever bothering with it. If I'm not going to cook up the meat, I'm not going to be killing critters for food, so no wasted resources.

That said, check out some of the mods. Primitive Survival gives jerky, and adds an amazing depth, though I don't remember smoking being included. Expanded Foods has sausage and several forms of charred meat, kinda sorta what you are looking for, I think. Those who just want salt have the option of making it in Expanded Foods or spelunking for it in Evaporite.

[Anthony frailey]

I always play longer months.  I also always go south where food spoils faster. 
Yeah, you do kill more than you want , mostly for leather and fats, which ironically are needed more in mid game and needed more than meat to progress.  I found expanded foods to be a bit too much, i almost always use Primitive survival ... but for reasons other than food prep.  Making Jerky in it, only extends meat to around 30 days if left in a vessel in the cellar. Better than regular cooked meat, worse than salted meats. 
As it stands, just going solo, I seem to always over-plant, and raise enough animals to feed probably two or three players all winter. 
 I myself, like the homesteading portion of the game, along with basic survival , but I am also one that hates wasting resources. 
If one was able to smoke up meats, where it was comparable to salted meats ( simply because salt isn't always easy to find, and is needed for other things too ) in "storage life" , i feel it'd make players stress a lot less about extra hunting. 
 This is taking into account, i purposefully "rot" a good portions of my foods, to compost for my green house and farms , tera preta will drain of nutrients, I try to fully fertilize it when I leave it all fallow in the few cold months.  While i do not experience true winters in the region I go to, usually in the temperature zone, just before tropical, it gets just cold enough, in winter to make growing non-productive. However, the higher temps does mean cellars are a must, and food does spoil quicker too. 
But "prepping" part of me, wants to keep my cellar stocked "just in case".  
Bad part of me, i seem to always over-shoot whats needed.   
Smoking meats, i myself want, just to be able to do , more than it's a need.  Its an aspect, i can live with-out, but I feel should be in game.  I'd like a early game way to smoke meats, and later on make actual smoke house too. ( Just to do it , more than a need.) 
This is my first play through as well, i hadn't started over in bronze age , and have a couple years in game .. typically, i get bored long before reaching making windmills, automation, and iron.  This one here, i've actually gotten iron, working it by hand currently, made cheese too. Since i've went so far, I just plan on keep going see where it leads me. 

[l33tmaan]

Funnily enough, I don't think Expanded Foods actually adds a way to preserve your meat. I guess you can turn it into sausage, but that's about it.

[Anthony frailey]

back when i discovered mods, i used it...  Expanded foods, and Primitive survival ... what i discovered, while variety was nice, it at the same time gave way too many options, that tended to detract from the base game , and good portions of it, i did not really use, like making sushi. 
I had nothing against sushi , just fishing doesn't yield anything for you, except for proteins/meat ... and technically speaking, I wind up with loads of meats just trying to attain leather and fat thats needed, but you get so much less of hunting, or even raising animals to slaughter. 
So the option is, try to store it best you can, use what you can ... salt it for longest term preservation until ready to cook with it , or let it rot.  
Like last night i went took stock of my cellar, winter is arriving again soon, and i got enough stored, cook sealed in crocks, I don't have to cook the surpluses i got in the storage vessels, nor do i need to make bread, pies, or cheese to survive ... and i probably will be able to have many of these crocks unused. 
If i was playing with one or two more players , it might be a stretch making such last and not run out. 
So the smoked preservation, is really just a realistic aspect that would fit in the game, and be variable to conditions , area, playstyle, and SP and MP friendly alike. 
Unlike slat veins ( halite) , where even if two people are looking, will only yield one harvest of resources .. and thats IF you find it. 
I've played many seeds, where salt was never found. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Anthony frailey

[Anthony frailey]

Funny, 

ok I forgot i had primitive survival enabled on my play through, and while it's not early game ( need a saw for boards and flax for twine) , I discovered this:  It works too, meat outside after smoked, last a year in warm climate. 
In the cellar in storage, 7 years.  However, once smoked, you  cannot cook meals with it, only roast on firepit. But it is preservation. 
 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Anthony frailey

[Spear and Fang]

On 12/6/2022 at 7:57 PM, Anthony frailey said:

However, once smoked, you  cannot cook meals with it, only roast on firepit. But it is preservation. 
 

Wait what?  Pretty sure I added smoked meats to basic meal recipes and pies as well.

[Anthony frailey]

Yeah, i discovered a bug or two because of another mod , removed the offending mod , started working for meals. 

[l33tmaan]

16 hours ago, Anthony frailey said:

Yeah, i discovered a bug or two because of another mod , removed the offending mod , started working for meals. 

Was it my mod?

Edited December 12, 2022 by l33tmaan