Temporal storms... just... why?

[baamchim]

El 8/7/2024 a las 18:10, DuperSoupy dijo:

lo peor es que no tiene ninguna utilidad, no puedes sacar probecho de ello




 

 

[pigfood]

On 7/26/2024 at 8:09 PM, LadyWYT said:

I think there's a trader or two that sells them, isn't there?

In theory, yes. Treasure Hunters sell them. However, the traders have a very limited stock and sell huge amounts of useless garbage. So having them in stock is not common. Even if you settle in a spot with 4 or 5 accessible Treasure Hunters, you may very well not find any, when you visit all of them.

I wish they were reliably in stock in exchange for paying 2x or 3x the current price of 5 gears.

My personal workaround is to mod the game to increase the amount the trader is selling when they are in stock to 3 (the chance that he has none is still the same and very high) and increase the price to 10 gears.

(I hate temporal storms and have them disabled.)

[shnabbles]

What's frustrating for me is that no one seems to have servers with temporal storms turned off. 

[Thorfinn]

That's an easy one, though, @shnabbles. Just exit the server and rejoin in a few minutes. Enough time for a potty break or grab a quick snack or get a refill of your favorite beverage.

On 8/4/2024 at 12:19 PM, sushieater said:

My personal workaround is to mod the game to increase the amount the trader is selling when they are in stock to 3

Why not just create a recipe that an "X" or "+" with 2 rusty gears in each spot gives you a temporal gear? Then all you have to do is enable your mod rather than tweaking the trader tables every time there's an update?

Edited August 18, 2024 by Thorfinn

[Arasine]

For my 2 pence worth, the Temporal storms and other mechanics around sanity are out of place in the incredible survival sandbox. I've never once thought any of those mechanics enhanced my experience while playing. A storm was always something that interrupted something I wanted to do with something I was forced to deal with.

I play with storms switched off now so no issues

[Hafthohlladung]

I'm kind of on the fence regarding this issue, I want to play the game with as many features enabled and to experience all of the Lore.  But the way Storms currently operate feels like it's just a irritating 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

Thanks to an earlier post I've now turned down the strength and frequency of the storms and I'll see how I get on with that.  But unless something changes in future updates I may also switch them off altogether.

Edited August 24, 2024 by Hafthohlladung

[Brady_The]

59 minutes ago, Hafthohlladung said:

I'm kind of on the fence regarding this issue, I want to play the game with as many features enabled and to experience all of the Lore.  But the way Storms currently operate feels like it's just a irritating 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

Thanks to an earlier post I've now turned down the strength and frequency of the storms and I'll see how I get on with that.  But unless something changes in future updates I may also switch them off altogether.

For the longest time it was standard, to be able to sleep through temporal storms. If you didn't activate this option at world creation, you can still do that with the command "/wc temporalStormSleeping 1". That way you have the "best" of both worlds. Stay awake if you need drops or feel the urge to fight, go to bed if you cannot be bothered.

[Rhyagelle]

The temporal storms are a really neat concept, but I feel like they are (at this moment) poorly executed. The presence of a consistent danger is good. The thrill of fighting off hordes of terrible creatures once in a while for some risk and reward, is good. But what I don't think is good is that there is no viable way to protect yourself agains the storms and once there is a way to keep them from spawning in your house or maybe protect yourself at least during the storms, it's not something I can enjoy at the moment.

A device you charge with gears during the storm to temporarily stablize your immediate area from the distortion/storm, would be great. Something very similiar to the Rift ward, but specifically for storms, or maybe an upgraded ward that also protects against the storms once provided with energy. 

[Hafthohlladung]

7 hours ago, Rhyagelle said:

A device you charge with gears during the storm to temporarily stablize your immediate area from the distortion/storm, would be great. Something very similiar to the Rift ward, but specifically for storms, or maybe an upgraded ward that also protects against the storms once provided with energy. 

That's a good idea, maybe it could look like you're under a protective force field dome but can still see the storm going on outside of it.

[Thorfinn]

14 hours ago, Rhyagelle said:

But what I don't think is good is that there is no viable way to protect yourself agains the storms

There are effective strategies, assuming you forgot to enable sleeping through them. By far, the easiest is just exiting out and restarting. At least that used to work. Next is sitting on a raft in the middle of a lake. At least that reportedly works. Swimming used to work, for sure, since drifters couldn't swim, but that's not very practical in the middle of winter. Next is establishing a de minimis structure to sit it out. While some of the ones that formerly worked have been shown not to anymore, to the best of my knowledge, being on a ladder that doesn't go all the way to the ground, and has a "roof" over it has never been found to cause problems.

Then there are a variety of clever ways of using fire or boiling water to kill spawns while you remain "safe".

My go-to in most other cases, running, has never failed me.

There are plenty of viable ways of dealing with the storm. What there is not are viable ways of avoiding storms that don't require a change in your plans.

[EDIT]

Oh, sure, now italics works.

[/EDIT]

Edited August 25, 2024 by Thorfinn

[LadyWYT]

20 hours ago, Rhyagelle said:

A device you charge with gears during the storm to temporarily stablize your immediate area from the distortion/storm, would be great. Something very similiar to the Rift ward, but specifically for storms, or maybe an upgraded ward that also protects against the storms once provided with energy. 

I like the idea; it'd be a good late-game project, though I would expect it to be fairly expensive to power. I'd stick with the dome shield though, not the complete avoidance of the storms. Complete avoidance can already be accomplished if you enabled sleeping through temporal storms; otherwise, I'd much rather have the temporal storms stopped via some major story quest. Assuming the latter, I'd also expect the player to learn how to craft Jonas parts or otherwise have access to a parts vendor, since no temporal storms means drifters stop being a reliable source of parts.

21 hours ago, Rhyagelle said:

But what I don't think is good is that there is no viable way to protect yourself agains the storms and once there is a way to keep them from spawning in your house or maybe protect yourself at least during the storms, it's not something I can enjoy at the moment.

Similar to what @Thorfinn mentioned, my understanding is that most players either build a small bunker/locker to hide in during a storm, or enable sleeping through temporal storms. I usually opt for the bunker route, since I prefer to keep temporal storms feeling like a real threat(which they don't feel threatening if you can just sleep through them). While it's not particularly exciting sitting in a small space for several minutes, the storms don't really last that long, and there are still things I can do while I wait it out. Usually I'm panning for materials or inspecting the map or handbook to plan my next moves. Once I have some decent armor and weapons, I'll start to venture out into the storms in search of treasures.

[Thorfinn]

Agreed, such a device would be interesting, but if it's powered by temporal gears, it's going to be pretty tough to use it to avoid storms, since that's where almost all the gears are coming from. Personally, I can't see building one, unless it were essential to the storyline. Storms barely rate as inconvenience anymore. I usually end the storms with stacks of hay bales, or with stacks of dirt or sand, or sticks, or I run the route to collect resin, or do something else that I was going to have to do anyway. I've even harvested firewood for a charcoal pit when that was getting low. The double-headeds are the only ones I go out of my way for, the rest I try to ignore. Most of them, including the double-headeds, end up fleeing if you keep a little distance from them.

[Rhyagelle]

13 hours ago, Hafthohlladung said:

That's a good idea, maybe it could look like you're under a protective force field dome but can still see the storm going on outside of it.

That would be pretty cool!

7 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

There are effective strategies, assuming you forgot to enable sleeping through them. By far, the easiest is just exiting out and restarting. At least that used to work. Next is sitting on a raft in the middle of a lake. At least that reportedly works. Swimming used to work, for sure, since drifters couldn't swim, but that's not very practical in the middle of winter. Next is establishing a de minimis structure to sit it out. While some of the ones that formerly worked have been shown not to anymore, to the best of my knowledge, being on a ladder that doesn't go all the way to the ground, and has a "roof" over it has never been found to cause problems.

Then there are a variety of clever ways of using fire or boiling water to kill spawns while you remain "safe".

My go-to in most other cases, running, has never failed me.

There are plenty of viable ways of dealing with the storm. What there is not are viable ways of avoiding storms that don't require a change in your plans.

[EDIT]

Oh, sure, now italics works.

[/EDIT]

On servers, sleeping through the night is virtually impossible, because others have need of the storms. The solution shouldn't be to quit the game or just sleep through the night for those specific circumstances. It's a lot easier to manage in single player, certainly, but sleep shouldn't be the mechanic that is provided to players to help them endure the storm.

I don't think swimming out to the ocean every time a storm drops or remodeling your base to incorporate out of the way methods of indirect damage to drifters during a storm is a good idea, either, nor an actual solution. 

One simple solution could be making them not able to spawn in a player defined "house" or enclosure. If not that, a ward that helps specifically with storms. As a player, I shouldn't have to flee the server or go jump into an ocean to avoid auto-botting drifters during a storm, nor pleading with the server to go to sleep when they--understandably--have their reasons to fight the storm through. 

38 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

I like the idea; it'd be a good late-game project, though I would expect it to be fairly expensive to power. I'd stick with the dome shield though, not the complete avoidance of the storms. Complete avoidance can already be accomplished if you enabled sleeping through temporal storms; otherwise, I'd much rather have the temporal storms stopped via some major story quest. Assuming the latter, I'd also expect the player to learn how to craft Jonas parts or otherwise have access to a parts vendor, since no temporal storms means drifters stop being a reliable source of parts.

Similar to what @Thorfinn mentioned, my understanding is that most players either build a small bunker/locker to hide in during a storm, or enable sleeping through temporal storms. I usually opt for the bunker route, since I prefer to keep temporal storms feeling like a real threat(which they don't feel threatening if you can just sleep through them). While it's not particularly exciting sitting in a small space for several minutes, the storms don't really last that long, and there are still things I can do while I wait it out. Usually I'm panning for materials or inspecting the map or handbook to plan my next moves. Once I have some decent armor and weapons, I'll start to venture out into the storms in search of treasures.

As I mentioned above for sleeping, it's not a viable solution, most especially for well populated servers. As for the dome shield, I'd agree, something like that would be great. A bubble around a small area that stops the distortion and when you step out of that bubble, the storm is still going on. That would be very interesting!

[Thorfinn]

7 minutes ago, Rhyagelle said:

One simple solution could be making them not able to spawn in a player defined "house" or enclosure. If not that, a ward that helps specifically with storms. As a player, I shouldn't have to flee the server or go jump into an ocean to avoid auto-botting drifters during a storm, nor pleading with the server to go to sleep when they--understandably--have their reasons to fight the storm through. 

Sure, that would be perfectly reasonable, so long as it conveys the atmosphere the game is going for. Hanging up garlic or painting the lintels with sheep's blood seems like it would take some of the fear/horror out of the game. Though after some practice, there's not all that much fear or horror to a storm anyway. It's just not a credible threat unless you get cornered or something like that.

 

[Maelstrom]

On 8/23/2024 at 1:25 PM, Arasine said:

For my 2 pence worth, the Temporal storms and other mechanics around sanity are out of place in the incredible survival sandbox. I've never once thought any of those mechanics enhanced my experience while playing. A storm was always something that interrupted something I wanted to do with something I was forced to deal with.

I play with storms switched off now so no issues

Vintage Story isn't JUST a survival game.  It has a story.  Temporal storms are a part of that story.  Yes, they are pretty basic at this point. Remember this game is early access and not all features are implemented yet.

In a recent interview Tyron has estimated the game is about 10% complete.  That could be up to a whopping 15% in the two updates since that interview.  Keep in mind that Tyron is the primary coder with the sometimes help of part-time coder(s).  All things considered given the small development team, VS is an EXCELLENT game as is.

[Zane Mordien]

17 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I like the idea; it'd be a good late-game project, though I would expect it to be fairly expensive to power. I'd stick with the dome shield though, not the complete avoidance of the storms. Complete avoidance can already be accomplished if you enabled sleeping through temporal storms; otherwise, I'd much rather have the temporal storms stopped via some major story quest. Assuming the latter, I'd also expect the player to learn how to craft Jonas parts or otherwise have access to a parts vendor, since no temporal storms means drifters stop being a reliable source of parts.

Similar to what @Thorfinn mentioned, my understanding is that most players either build a small bunker/locker to hide in during a storm, or enable sleeping through temporal storms. I usually opt for the bunker route, since I prefer to keep temporal storms feeling like a real threat(which they don't feel threatening if you can just sleep through them). While it's not particularly exciting sitting in a small space for several minutes, the storms don't really last that long, and there are still things I can do while I wait it out. Usually I'm panning for materials or inspecting the map or handbook to plan my next moves. Once I have some decent armor and weapons, I'll start to venture out into the storms in search of treasures.

Option 3: Just make a pile of spears and run around around during the storm and spear them to death. Way more fun and it's pretty easy to do.

I spent my first playthrough huddled scared in a room killing them but it is so boring. Run and Gun is pretty fun and easy. They are so slow you rarely ever take a hit except from a rock or two.

Edited August 26, 2024 by Zane Mordien

[Hafthohlladung]

3 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Vintage Story isn't JUST a survival game.  It has a story.  Temporal storms are a part of that story.  Yes, they are pretty basic at this point. Remember this game is early access and not all features are implemented yet.

Sounds like you've just made the case for turning them off!

[Rhyagelle]

20 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Sure, that would be perfectly reasonable, so long as it conveys the atmosphere the game is going for. Hanging up garlic or painting the lintels with sheep's blood seems like it would take some of the fear/horror out of the game. Though after some practice, there's not all that much fear or horror to a storm anyway. It's just not a credible threat unless you get cornered or something like that.

 

Yes, after a point, it just becomes annoying. Sometimes I want to fight the storm, some other days I just want to build, or cook or do something other than leave the server or fight off an obnoxious wave of drifters with auto-aim spawning in my house, which should be the one place in the game where you have safety (even if it might come with a cost).

[LadyWYT]

Wouldn't a temporal storm on a server be the perfect time to take a bathroom break, grab a snack, refill your drink, let the dog out, etc, if you don't want to bother with the storm mechanics? The temporal storms themselves don't really last that long, and I'm guessing that most servers will probably have at least somewhat long intervals in between storms.

20 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Though after some practice, there's not all that much fear or horror to a storm anyway. It's just not a credible threat unless you get cornered or something like that.

I would say this statement applies to most of the game, really. The steep learning curve is difficult to master, and is also what provides a good chunk of the challenge when you're learning the ropes. Once you've figured out what you're doing, the game isn't quite as challenging as it once was, although it is still quick to punish complacency. And I don't think that's a bad thing, as it allows the player to really feel like they've accomplished something as they improve their skills.

[Vratislav]

As many others already wrote, one can adapt to the storms, even if they are not avoidable. Despite drifters may spawn anywhere, I did not have big trouble to overcome  storms simply hiding in a food cellar, which has little open space to actually spawn drifters. I experienced like one drifter spawn inside the cellar during two seasons of gameplay, then I just shown him how I am good in running. I use the time to check maps, plan journeys, browse the help pages or wiki to make preparations, or a as a good opportunity to stop for a while from a running for complex tasks and to sort out priorities for next hours of gameplay. Even a bit of AFKing is ok, these storms are not as frequent as a night or day. In my second gameplay, I have refugee cabinet in my base if I was surprised without preparations, but never used it. In the late game, I just take iron chain armor on and go for hunting wheels and Jonas parts, chasing drifters around my base. 
I consider temporal storms as a good part of the lore, which is not difficult to handle, even in early game. As a nuisance they may turn wrong only if you do not play with good safety margin (like being stuck underground when the sanity is already low, or so), or if the storm hits when doing some serious business (Archives mission, or others in the future). Still, checking for a possible storm arrival in chat tabs before doing dangerous stuff is good precaution.

[Maelstrom]

On 8/26/2024 at 6:09 PM, LadyWYT said:

Wouldn't a temporal storm on a server be the perfect time to take a bathroom break, grab a snack, refill your drink, let the dog out, etc, if you don't want to bother with the storm mechanics? The temporal storms themselves don't really last that long, and I'm guessing that most servers will probably have at least somewhat long intervals in between storms.

Only if you log out. Otherwise you might return to a corpse.  While it's unlikely a drifter will spawn in a confined area (unless it is meticulously constructed to eliminate storm spawn), it is still possible.  Time it wrong and the inventory is lost from despawning.

[Hafthohlladung]

Can't help but smile at people lining up on this thread with suggestions of what else to do whilst waiting for a Temporal Storm to pass.

As a designer I would take a long hard look at a game feature that players are continually inventing new ways of ignoring.

[LadyWYT]

6 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Only if you log out. Otherwise you might return to a corpse.  While it's unlikely a drifter will spawn in a confined area (unless it is meticulously constructed to eliminate storm spawn), it is still possible.  Time it wrong and the inventory is lost from despawning.

I figured they would be logging out if going AFK Or at least to me it seems like it should be common sense, unless one's essentially locked themselves into a 2 x 1 space.

2 hours ago, Hafthohlladung said:

As a designer I would take a long hard look at a game feature that players are continually inventing new ways of ignoring.

Pretty sure that's why the devs included options to increase the intervals between storms or turn them off entirely.

[Thorfinn]

2 hours ago, Hafthohlladung said:

Can't help but smile at people lining up on this thread with suggestions of what else to do whilst waiting for a Temporal Storm to pass.

As a designer I would take a long hard look at a game feature that players are continually inventing new ways of ignoring.

Would it be better had we left it at, "Toughen up, Snowflake. Learn to deal with it."  

[Omega Haxors]

I used to enjoy the temporal storms, until I was early game during one and it spawned a level 4 enemy RIGHT ON ME that instantly killed me even though I was moving as fast as I possibly could have. And now I won't go out without at least steel chainmail armor, because that is an absolute abortion of game design.

They're not even that fun when you're fully decked out in armor, because 90% of the enemies are T1/2 trash that die in one hit and can't even penetrate your armor. Yawn. But then suddenly you'll take half your life and get launched like 2 feet into the air because a T4+ spawned behind you. It's really not in a good place, at all. RNG should not be the sole thing dictating if you get to enjoy yourself or not, especially when there's three levels of temporal storm that only affect the duration, not the difficulty. The meta strategy should not be spam stones everywhere or carpet your house with path tiles, it should be actually engaging with the mechanics.

Edited September 18, 2024 by Omega Haxors