AI covers for mods

[Vexxvididu]

20 hours ago, Tj Pepler - Critcher said:

I want to make a quick point for anyone who may not be aware.  I am not picking a fight or anything of the sort, this is fact only.  In several of my working environments across many different companies I work with and meet many different programmers from various fields and across many languages.  The one thing that is a certain fact in the real world is every one of them uses AI to an extent in their day to day work, all of them.  In many companies now agentic programming skills are required or at the least strongly encouraged.  If Vintage Story was being developed without any AI tools whatsoever I would be utterly amazed.  Any company not using AI now in their workflow is a rare snowflake in the desert.  
I am not saying good or bad, I don't care any more about peoples personal opinions on AI any more than anyone actually cares about mine, but know that the reality is, you are not avoiding it, if you run Microsoft, Amazon, Google, or any other modern service whatsoever you ARE using AI and are part of the system.  
That is the way it is now.

 

Sort of, yes... but there is a diverse spectrum of how much AI is used.  Asking google for examples of how to use a vector in C++ or stuff like that is very common.  Everyone does that, I agree.  But most developers aren't just trying to get AI to write all their code for them... YET.  I do think it will happen eventually though.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

4 minutes ago, Vexxvididu said:

 

Sort of, yes... but there is a diverse spectrum of how much AI is used.  Asking google for examples of how to use a vector in C++ or stuff like that is very common.  Everyone does that, I agree.  But most developers aren't just trying to get AI to write all their code for them... YET.  I do think it will happen eventually though.

I mean I just got an email on my work laptop today that they're now using AI to write the quarterly reviews. Yesterday they published metrics on how AI is being used and just last month GitHub's CoPilot wrote over 50,000 lines of code for my organization. It's pretty sad when you think about it.

[Tj Pepler - Critcher]

Just a little add from personal experience for anyone who's interested in the whole thing.  
"Vibe Coding" is not really a thing in reality, if you don't know how to code and clean up behind the robot you will have nothing but a steaming mess.  The reason is very simple, coding is a mathematical process and the best LLM is only 90% accurate with all maths functions!!!  
What does work, and every code monkey I know does it is we check with AI for answers if we're stuck, even then they are wrong as often as not but it can help to bump your brain to remember stuff yourself.  Making semantic changes across the codebase is simple with AI who can edit 100 files in seconds, of course right!
The AI is very good at recognizing what you are working on and suggesting code improvements, but lacks the ability to implement them perfectly so you HAVE to fix it by hand anyways.

AI Slop to me is the result of someone saying, 'Hey robot make me a new app, also do some art and a themesong, and then make a post about it'  That kind of nonsense only leads to pain and badness.  Agentic coding however is taking a tool, recognizing it's strengths and weaknesses and applying the tool where appropriate.

Anyways, I'll finish with saying this, I use AI for all sorts of tasks while developing, from research to error checking and, as I stated before I even use it for placeholder images and for personal fun I sometimes like to write lyrics and have the robot make it into a song for me.  But I in no way think an AI should ever be in charge of anything or trusted to release a final product, that seems crazy.

Anyone who is opposed to the use of AI as a tool in the creation of mods please consider this fair warning that I do in fact use these tools and I will keep using them in my own controlled and overseen way.  My only goal is to share things I find fun with community members that are interested in them. I don't want anyone who has such strong convictions to feel tricked into using an AI product unknowingly, I am even going to make a point to add a note to all my releases later and have a warning on each one.

 

[Thorfinn]

9 hours ago, Broccoli Clock said:

AI is all about answering one specific question, and that question is "how can we automate everything so we can stop paying wages".

Sure. Nothing new. There are two big differences between this and previous similar innovations.

1. This is a lot more rapid, and,
2. This time it affects you.

Only idiots responded to people whose jobs were being displaced with, "Learn to code." Personally, I'm surprised it took as long as it did. I closed down my software business and went back to college in '88 because I was absolutely convinced that I had only a decade or so in my chosen niche, software for small banks. Turns out I missed it by a good decade and a half, but it did let me position myself into a niche that required creativity.

The world is going to have to rethink the whole IP thing anyway. You have a decade (if history is a guide, probably 25 years) if you are counting on IP to protect your contribution to society. And, no, you can't count on government regulation to solve that, any more than it's been able to "solve" any other innovations.

 

[Tj Pepler - Critcher]

I will be a man of my word, my latest mods now carry this icon and everything I do from now on will have it.  If anyone want's to use it feel free   But this is it, if you see this and you want to avoid AI, consider this fair warning!

BTW : I still love you even if we disagree

 

[Thorfinn]

AI would go away tomorrow if it did not solve problems, or at least held the promise of solving problems.

Currently the two biggest end uses are,

1. Military, and,
2. Porn.

There is no chance that either of the big money supporters is going to push for encoding morality or philosophy into it. So long as it puts missiles on target or creates prurient interest, those customers don't really care. They would actually prefer that missiles are not second-guessing the morality of striking the target, and are mostly indifferent whether "she" has an extra toe joint.

Since it is going to happen, the question is not whether we adapt, but how, and how many second-order effects we are willing to live with in the meantime. And, ideally, have some extra resources left over to be able to add a more human touch to the algorithms. But that's going to have to come from those who still care about morality and ethics. Choosing to sit this one out is choosing to have an amoral "AI".  

[Teh Pizza Lady]

5 hours ago, Tj Pepler - Critcher said:

Just a little add from personal experience for anyone who's interested in the whole thing.  
"Vibe Coding" is not really a thing in reality, if you don't know how to code and clean up behind the robot you will have nothing but a steaming mess.  The reason is very simple, coding is a mathematical process and the best LLM is only 90% accurate with all maths functions!!!  
What does work, and every code monkey I know does it is we check with AI for answers if we're stuck, even then they are wrong as often as not but it can help to bump your brain to remember stuff yourself.  Making semantic changes across the codebase is simple with AI who can edit 100 files in seconds, of course right!
The AI is very good at recognizing what you are working on and suggesting code improvements, but lacks the ability to implement them perfectly so you HAVE to fix it by hand anyways.

AI Slop to me is the result of someone saying, 'Hey robot make me a new app, also do some art and a themesong, and then make a post about it'  That kind of nonsense only leads to pain and badness.  Agentic coding however is taking a tool, recognizing it's strengths and weaknesses and applying the tool where appropriate.

Anyways, I'll finish with saying this, I use AI for all sorts of tasks while developing, from research to error checking and, as I stated before I even use it for placeholder images and for personal fun I sometimes like to write lyrics and have the robot make it into a song for me.  But I in no way think an AI should ever be in charge of anything or trusted to release a final product, that seems crazy.

Anyone who is opposed to the use of AI as a tool in the creation of mods please consider this fair warning that I do in fact use these tools and I will keep using them in my own controlled and overseen way.  My only goal is to share things I find fun with community members that are interested in them. I don't want anyone who has such strong convictions to feel tricked into using an AI product unknowingly, I am even going to make a point to add a note to all my releases later and have a warning on each one.

 

I wanted to respond, but I was waiting for time to give you a proper response.

I think you're mixing up whether something works with whether or not it exists. "Vibe coding" is 100% a thing. Early on, there were even cases of people trusting AI blindly and doing real damage, like wiping production data because the model “decided” to rebuild a system from scratch without even asking because it couldn't understand how to work with the existing code to make the necessary edits. I've even tested the best coding models and they can barely figure out how to fix issues even when I explain to the LLM exactly what is happening and why.

Personally, I have reviewed PRs on GitHub from people doing exactly that, prompting their way through entire program features without understanding any of the output and blindly trusting the AI knows what it's doing. The result was dozens of bloated files, duplicated and inconsistent logic, and the product barely worked after weeks of "effort".

So yes, AI needs oversight. But the failure mode you have described is exactly what people mean by vibe coding and not only is it real, but it produces horrid results when not guided by a real developer who actually understands how to program. I also think that calling it "agentic coding" is going to create it's own problems. It can make a workflow sound more deliberate and reliable than it actually is, which risks normalizing over-reliance on AI over good, old-fashioned human ingenuity and creativity.

A bad developer will treat it as a crutch and never seek to gain understanding needed to maintain what it is they're creating. A good developer can fall into an entirely different trap, letting standards slip and trusting the AI's output when they haven't fully reviewed it because "it looks right and worked in testing". Both lead to the same outcome: poorer code quality and a code base that is harder to maintain.

And back to the PRs I've reviewed on GH. I've used the products behind those PRs and the common issue wasn't bugs. It was that the end product felt flat. The individual pieces worked individually, but the design around them didn't make sense. It wasn't intuitive. It didn't feel human. The difference between generated content and created content is stark.

That’s also why you see people asking on ModDB how much of a mod was coded by an LLM. It’s not always anti-AI sentiment. A lot of the time, it’s a practical concern: if something breaks, will the person who made it actually be able to fix it?? I don't want to use a mod that doesn't work and won't get fixed, would you?

[Tj Pepler - Critcher]

Sorry, you are correct.  I was wrong to say vibe coding is not real, I meant you can't get a quality application as a result of vibe coding and, that the only people who can actually make real use of the tools are people who already understand programming, so I think we're agreeing here  

[InternetDragon]

2 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

AI would go away tomorrow if it did not solve problems, or at least held the promise of solving problems.

Currently the two biggest end uses are,

1. Military, and,
2. Porn.

Honorable mention is by the 0.6 GPA students who use it to coast by at school/college. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

57 minutes ago, Tj Pepler - Critcher said:

Sorry, you are correct.  I was wrong to say vibe coding is not real, I meant you can't get a quality application as a result of vibe coding and, that the only people who can actually make real use of the tools are people who already understand programming, so I think we're agreeing here  

mostly agreeing. Anyone can still make use of the tool. I think the nuance here is less how much the tool was used or even who used it, which is why people ask, and more how it was used. I wouldn't trust a carpenter with a monkey wrench to cut a board in half, but the electrician using a saw will find your water pipes faster than you think. I think if you understand the code that the tool produced, then you shouldn't have to put a disclaimer that you used the tool to create it. The idea there is that if the correct person is using the proper tool for the job then everything will go okay, but if you're trying to use it incorrectly or for a different task, then things can go sideways fast. 

Visual Studio comes with CoPilot garbage anyway nowadays so it's likely that nearly every mod produced will have some AI-generated code in it now. I particularly prefer the Windsurf IDE if I'm doing any LLM-guided exploratory programming since it allows me to make use of Claude Opus 4.6, but that is another conversation for another time and the keyword there is "exploratory" in the sense that I'm just noodling around with code, exploring concepts and trying to see what is even possible before committing to a larger project.

Edited Saturday at 12:56 AM by Teh Pizza Lady

[IrelandClover]

Honestly to me AI covers always have something instantly untrustworthy about them... Could it be because of how I'm subconsciously primed that AI is used in scams (just think of those ads made by AI that pop up on youtube)? Or that I already have a pretty strong anti-AI stance? Probably. I think it really depends on the person.

To me, I really really like when the cover is actually from the content in the mod, it makes it really easy to understand how this mod might look like in game right off the bat. I much prefer that over an AI cover. I think it adds this genuine feel about it, and it makes it feel more like this is the passion project of another person- which let's be real most mods are- but you don't always step back to think about it.

To be honest I think because of those reasons people who use AI covers for their mods could honestly be doing themselves a disservice if they want their work to be recognized and respected...you're having to fight against people's preconceived notions about AI. 

[Broccoli Clock]

Reading some of the comments on here has me really depressed for the future. I'm going to guess the majority of you are younger than me, yet the comments are equivalent to "A horse, from the Trojans? For free? Well surely nothing bad can arise from this situation."

[Vexxvididu]

2 hours ago, Broccoli Clock said:

Reading some of the comments on here has me really depressed for the future. I'm going to guess the majority of you are younger than me, yet the comments are equivalent to "A horse, from the Trojans? For free? Well surely nothing bad can arise from this situation."

I hate AI as much as you, but honestly, we can't put this genie back in the bottle.  I really want to see the current AI bubble burst and see some of the shady companies making it go out of business.  I want to see more regulation on how it's trained and implemented too.  ...but it's definitely not going to just vanish.  The tech is likely to get better until it's just that much harder to ignore. I'm not enthusiastic about it....  I'm not looking forward to seeing the huge lay offs coming....  And yes....  we should fear for the future.

I don't think the tech is inherently evil, but do agree there are huge problems with the actual implementation of it.

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, Vexxvididu said:

I really want to see the current AI bubble burst and see some of the shady companies making it go out of business.  I want to see more regulation on how it's trained and implemented too.  ...but it's definitely not going to just vanish.  The tech is likely to get better until it's just that much harder to ignore.

I'm pretty sure this is already starting to happen, though I'm not sure that I would call it a complete collapse as much as I would markets just stabilizing. I don't think it's a situation unique to AI, as much as it is just a cycle that happens when new trends or technology appear. 

 

1 hour ago, Vexxvididu said:

And yes....  we should fear for the future.

I think the key is to just be mindful of actions in the present. Kinda like playing Vintage Story, really. What you do at the start of the game sets you up for success or failure later on, so the further ahead you can plan and prepare the better the outcome tends to be. And much like winter, sometimes times are tough and you can't necessarily stop it from happening, but the effects can be heavily mitigated with some preparation.

[Thorfinn]

3 hours ago, Vexxvididu said:

And yes....  we should fear for the future.

Why?

[Thorfinn]

3 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I think the key is to just be mindful of actions in the present. Kinda like playing Vintage Story, really.

On reflection, a great way to look at it. You don't really fear bears so much as you respect them. They may change how you were planning to build out, sure, but you deal with it. Maybe you arm up and smack them, or maybe you put your fields on the other side of the house. Or maybe instead of planting right now, you decide to spend the time clayforming until the bear gets bored and wanders off. He just forms constraints that you adapt to.

 

Alternatively, one can treat it as some treat surface instability...

[Vexxvididu]

2 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Why?

Seems odd to ask me instead of the person who I was responding to (and mostly agreeing with).  I think AI tech has great potential to make the world better, but in the short and medium term, I do fear massive lay offs and environmental damage caused by it.  Many on this thread have already pointed both of those things out.

[OdinTheDude]

i think i agree with pretty much everyone here that poorly and/or quickly made art or simple screenshots are MUCH more preferable than AI art by a mile. the truth is- when most people are looking for a mod, they'll want to actually SEE what the mod does, not just... "here is a vague recreation of what my mod does made by a robot".

you don't NEED to pay an artist. you don't NEED to pay an image editor. literally you can just open up paint, write out your mod's title initials in big letters, and then screenshot that and use that. if something is meant to be placeholder... have it BE a placeholder instead of just using it as an excuse for permanently having a subpar AI image.

i don't agree with going after people just for using it (unless it's particularly horrendous and clearly made without any care whatsoever), but you can't expect everyone to see all the AI shit around and not react adversely. me personally i almost always avoid an AI generated thumbnail if there's a non-AI alternative. if you are someone who is genuinely interested in your mods picking up traction, just take a screenshot. it's really that easy. or use royalty free icons over a generic background. or just draw something silly. any of these things are preferable

[OdinTheDude]

in terms of AI as a whole, i do really wish it remained non-generative. AI is certainly not helping cure cancer at this point in time, and you can see the shift from wanting to be profitable through doing good into simply being profitable no matter what. the "bad actors" will basically always outrun the good ones tenfold. you can't expect companies to not use the cheap option whenever possible. that's kind of what 95% of companies are focused on, providing the bare minimum that will get a sale. why spend money making a good advertisement when you can spend a day writing a REALLY good prompt and generate something and spend all that money spreading that shitty advertisement as far and wide as you can.

environmental impact is negligible to me (not in the fact that i don't think it's bad, more the fact that even if it was completely net zero i still would hate AI being used). people should be focusing on the human element more than anything else, really. this isn't the same as factories replacing human manual labour. this is AI replacing human creativity. what's the point of getting an AI to do all the creative shit in our lives? i thought this shit was meant to help us with our chores?

[space llama]

i normally avoid mods with ai covers, if they where to lazy to make them thumbnail then they where probably to lazy to make the mod themselves as well 

[QueenGeeBee]

I hate seeing the AI covers. It puts me off of the mod instantly.

[Bumber]

I don't see any issue in using AI to generate images. Art quality is subjective. As long as there's nothing illegal, and it's not generating a bunch of hidden swastikas everywhere.

If you're generating code, then we've got a problem. Code can be malicious. If you're publishing code that you don't understand, you're not doing the minimum to protect users. Only ask the AI for advice, then be sure you can verify what it tells you.

[Vinyl Synth]

The generative AI situation in modding is easily the worst I've ever seen the ai situation generally. A mod is a special kind of derivative work, where you exercise a creative right to modify something you own to your tastes, whether on a large scale like a massive overhaul mod, or on the small scale with a little UI change. A creative, creation changing art. When did we stop caring about the process and start caring about some dumb result? A mod is a reflection of it's creator. When I see l33tmaan and Pursec's work on "A Culinary Artillery" and "Expanded Foods", I know I'm getting something curated by people who really care about their work. They put in the effort. What they change, too, reflects their choices at every step. If I were to have a conversation with one of them every day for a month, I would be able to piece together a complete explanation for everything they did in that month. Why some edit was made, why they left some bug in this version, why the update timeline is so odd.

In the advertising of a mod, this is work you can do! a somewhat edited stock photo, art in the creative commons or used with permission has a ton of charm. people see it and instantly think "huh, i wonder why they chose to do that?" even unedited screenshots have their appeal, especially if they depict something from your mod!

Where is this, in the context of AI? When someone sees an AI image, their first thought is "ok" or "ew". Even if they don't immediately reject the premise of AI generated art, they still don't see it as creative. The usage of AI is not a lack of a choice, not having an image is a choice, using ai is a choice, using stock photos is a choice. That choice, however, is a clear sign that you don't really care. Worse, it's a sign that you use it in other matters too. 

When the day comes that you find yourself tempted to ask it for advice on childcare, personal health, interpersonal relationships, careers, or even something more sensitive, will you be able to actually tell when it lies to you? 

It's not a secret that AI decays our ability to critically think; it's paraded around the offices of people who make it. It's not a secret that using AI worsens your own understanding of things; it's a natural result of not doing them yourself. The learning styles of yesteryear are a myth. We all learn by doing, we all learn by watching, we all learn by seeing. When you give it to the ai, what do you learn? Not to try, and pass it off to the AI? 

Something I know people will try to argue with me about is how this "doesn't actually address the covers" but doesn't it? Your cover is the first thing someone sees when they see your mod. If it's AI, they're going to assume what has proven true almost every time: you don't actually care about the mod, and just wanted to speed through the process. 

When I see Salty, his AI generated floppa image, and his vibe coded mods, I know that the mod is going to fail basic tests of game design, and i know it will run poorly. ex: mountain climbing, smooth movement.

If you're not against AI in all creative endeavors, to be frank, you're just against artists as a whole. Art and media (and yes, that includes mods) aren't made for you to chew up and spit out and ask for more today, tomorrow, and the day after; they exist in a real context, by a real person, for a real reason. They serve identifiable purposes for identifiable reasons and are made with choices ingrained in them. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

12 hours ago, Vinyl Synth said:

When I see Salty, his AI generated floppa image, and his vibe coded mods, I know that the mod is going to fail basic tests of game design, and i know it will run poorly. ex: mountain climbing, smooth movement.

Except: Salty and Proto created one of the best mods on the ModDB currently: Temporal Symphony. Granted not all of Salty's mods have been easy on performance, but I don't think he uses AI to create them. The things he does with the game, its engine, and the mod features are just too complex for AI to do the way he does it.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

Also Salty's floppa is a vector image, not AI-generated.