What are the must-haves for a "finished" Vintage Story?

[Tyron]

Been thinking about this lately. Content wise I would like to believe that after some 30-50% more survival content it would feel complete enough for a departure of it's early access state.

A must-have is of course relative, so I would define that as a feature of great impact to the financial success of a marketing push on media/steam/etc. So that means the game should be novel and detail rich enough that the majority of initial player experiences are positive (good initial rating on steam is crucial, afaik)

I personally feel like, in that regard the game would highly benefit from

• An even simply built modhub site with which mods can be 1-click installed ingame and prompt-installed when trying to join a multiplayer server.
• Easy server setup (that does not require manual port forwarding) 
• Better and more automated crash reporting
• Mac OS fixes on german keyboards, one crucial bugfix on the block lighting system 
• Configurable difficulty level
• In-game Server Listing through a master server
• More intuitive prospecting
• Probably Seasons and Weather 

Everything beyond that is just a nice-to-have, I think. What are your thoughts on what should be absolutely necessary before this game can be called "finished" / "mature"?

[Saraty]

• Better animal / mob AI
• Armor and mob progression (mobs get stronger the deeper player goes)

[Balduranne]

From a content standpoint? In no particular order:

• Cooking (Use for salt and herbs)
• Water content (Fishing, a use for seaweed, boats)
• More mob and animal variety 
• Armor and clothing crafting (More uses for linen, leather tanning)
• A more streamlined way to make cook bricks/refine metal (A furnace or oven sort of thing)
• A use for most things you find (Sand, gravel, mud?)
• A more reliable way to make light sources (Technology locked - Gas lamps?)

[tony Liberatto]

Even though the game can be played in Single Player, the majority of players expect the game to be played in a Multiplayer safe environment. 
The success of servers hosting the game is the same as a success for the game.

Anything and everything that can help server admins will, in the end, help the game to be successful. 

For that I see things like:

Web server map, like Dynmap. It is a huge help for server admins to know at a glance what is going on on the server. It also helps players to situate themselves in relation to other players and the server spawn.

Chunk protection is another huge must have, maybe even bigger than the map. Right now we are playing in a trust mode. The same will not hold long once the game is actually sold in Steam.

Some log tool that works in a similar way as Prism, would also be very useful. Prism uses MySQL to keep a log of all player actions and interactions. If you open a chest and remove an item it logs that. In a server all players have access to it, so they can know who took their items.

There are many other server tools that could also be used, but I believe these 3 are the most important. 

The only other thing that I believe is a must is something akin to NEI, after a while it gets really annoying to have to go looking for a mod thread in the forum just to find out how to craft that one block or item. There needs to be a way in game to find how to craft all the items and blocks, including those added by mods, and including those that are crafted outside the grid.

 

[Erik]

I think the game has a long way to go to be called "finished", I would judge the current content to be 30% of the way.

The main problem now is, that a lot of systems feel unfinished:

• Smithing needs a big rework, hopefully promoting player skill.
• Iron production needs to be finished, there needs to be an iron bloom that is worked.
• Knapping/pottery is a very annoying task, I would like the recipes to have a smaller grid with bigger tiles.
• Farming could use more diverse crops, maybe fruit trees (see Growthcraft).
• Food and health balancing needed, maybe introduction of stamina.
• Underground/cave rework (cave biomes, deeper = dangerous)
• The bag/inventory system needs to be reworked/rebalanced.
• Animals and mobs need an AI and behavior rework, right now everything is a monster that wants to kill you.
• Combat is the worst, I will probably post a more streamlined overhaul suggestion soon.
• The current ore/prospecting system feels kinda useless, finding tin is really hard. Would love to see something like in Reasonable Realism.
• Connected textures are desperately needed, I can't stand the look of redwood trees anymore.

Now to missing/needed features for release:

• Steel age.
• Leather working.
• Animal husbandry.
• Mechanical power system.
• Mechanical computing system.
• Minecart/railroad system.
• Mechanical automation tools.
• Alchemy and herbology systems.
• Cooking and nutrition systems.
• Armor system.
• Seasons and weathers.
• Oceans and drowning.
• A tutorial and an TMI/NEI/JEI of some sort.

And this was just the survival mode content I think the game needs. Some things that you also planned:

• More story content, maybe dungeons, should only be released at 1.0, to contemplate spoiling the story before release.
• Villages and npcs. I feel like a basic system like in minecraft would be very disappointing, so I would push this behind the release in a big update.

And here are some things the game may not need imo:

• Player stats/attributes, they usually promote grinding and systems that require no player skill.
• More streamlining, the audience for this game isn't stupid and wants something that is more than a pretty minecraft clone.

[tony Liberatto]

I agree with most of the points you made, with one huge exception.

The knapping/pottery system is a great innovation, it feels immersive, believable and realistic. 

Most people really like the idea and love the first time that they play the game.

I will agree that after you make the 20th bowl you are tired of the system and wish for a faster way to do it.

Hence why I created the Mod, Bowl Stamp. But it is intended not as a substitute for the clay working system, just as a faster way for players that have already advanced in the tech tree.

As for knapping, the player advances to copper age so fast that there is no time to get tired of it.

There should be a reason to advance in the technology.

Why do you think caveman started using metal tools? Maybe one big reason is that he was tired of stone knapping. 

[heptagonrus]

Signs, labels and item frames for chests and direction posts on roads.

For comfortable storage structurizing and for showing off the builds and interacting with other players via road signs, ...

Should allow several ways to clearly mark and categorize chests, and mark places and directions near roads, mines, buildings, etc.

Signs should have several modes, at least one more mode than now - more contrast, e.g. white letters on darker background. E.g cook sign in a pit and use chalk to write.

Support of bigger fonts for shorter words, for signs on buildings.

More decorative signs, e.g. arrows (no need if chisel goes survival).

More sign interactions with blocks, e.g on posts, under some railing, attached perpendicalarly to a side of a buiding.

Item fames to mark chest contents visually.

Optionally flags/banners could be nice.

Optionally mixing item frame and sign functionality - use item icons on signs, mixing with text.

Optionally emoticons. :DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Stroam]

As far as a feature of great impact to the financial success of a marketing push on media/steam/etc. I'll go over all the ones suggested by Tyron and the ones I think fit the definition, though some of these suggestions will come with caveats. 

• An even simply built modhub site with which mods can be 1-click installed in-game and prompt-installed when trying to join a multiplayer server. 
  • Since one of the selling points is modding this is important.
• Easy server setup (that does not require manual port forwarding) 
  • There is a public server so this depends on advertising. If advertised as having a public server with the option of a creating a private then not needed. If advertised as setting up your own server to play with friends and family, then it is needed.
• In-game Server Listing through a master server
  • Maybe but this is great for a variety of reasons. Works well with a mod hub. Great for diagnosing server connection issues. Great way to have one place for servers and players to find each other. Allows some control by giving public servers ratings and in extreme cases banning servers with unethical practices.
• Better and more automated crash reporting
  • Yes, I would even go so far as to advertise as early access on places like steam. This also has the effect of making reviewers more generous.
• Mac OS fixes on german keyboards, one crucial bugfix on the block lighting system 
  • No. Design is way more important than bugs.
  • https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324923032_An_Empirical_Study_of_Game_Reviews_on_the_Steam_Platform
• Configurable difficulty level
  • No. Since modding is a selling point configurable difficulty level is not needed at the start.
• More intuitive prospecting 
  • Yes, as mentioned above good design is more important than bugs. I would tack on better ore spawning as well to this since they go hand in hand.
• Probably Seasons and Weather 
  • Yes, because it would be a core mechanic. Something other things depend on.
• Farming could use more diverse crops, maybe fruit trees (see Growthcraft).
  • Yes. I feel that crops do need to be more diverse because the crop varieties feel the same. Adding cooking is a great way to make the crops feel different. Also needs to tie in with seasons and weather. I would look at the top farming games and find what parts of those would work in VS.
• Armor and clothing crafting (More uses for linen, leather tanning)
  • Yes. Armor is something that is expected from games like this especially since there's already clothers. Leather processing is a staple in many survival games and part of armor crafting.
• Combat is the worst, I will probably post a more streamlined overhaul suggestion soon.
  • Yes. The combat update is something that divided the minecraft community and VS can't afford a split like that. The core mechanics of the combat system need fleshed out before released on something like steam. The combat mechanics also sets the feel of the game. Is it going to be spam click for a simple old school vibe? Are they going to be slow and deliberate like dark souls? Is it going to use stamina, attack delays, etc? Should be a large enough toolkit to add variation in combat to make it feel not always the same. No matter what you decide for the combat, have the core mechanics ironed out before being released or it will have a dramatic financial impact because it's so integral to the feel of a game.
• A tutorial and an TMI/NEI/JEI of some sort.
  • Yes. The first 15 hours of gameplay is highly crucial for positive reviews and if most of that is spent in a wiki and trying to figure out how to start, it's not going to go well. I'm not saying we need need something like TMI/NEI/JEI but somewhere in-game you can look up stuff and a getting started in-game tutorial. A chief complaint of TFC was how much you needed to know to just get started. Don't expect new players to know anything about TFC.
  • https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324923032_An_Empirical_Study_of_Game_Reviews_on_the_Steam_Platform
• Do more to make it look and feel less like minecraft
  • I watched a video of a person playing VS and they first thing they said upon loading into a world is, "This is minecraft." They then dug up a dirt block and said it sounded and felt like minecraft. Now I know it doesn't sound like minecraft but there are quite a few block games on steam and they are not mistaken as minecraft. Many of them have a distinctly different visual style and incorporate a mix of blocky and non-blocky things. VS doesn't have those things. What VS does have is seraphs. So when entering a world for the first time the clothing menu pops up which is great and you see a representation of you but you don't see you in the world so while you know that's your character you don't associate it with you yet. This reinforces you are not Steve or Alex. Start the person in 3rd person mode with a notification somewhere on the screen. Upon clicking the notification, a box pops up quickly explaining the controls, another one on explaining the HUD, and a third one how to knap and where you can find the in-game tutorials. This tells you this is different than minecraft. Next change the feel of breaking blocks. One of minecrafts distinct features is the sound of rapidly hitting a block, well hitting blocks in general to collect them. Make VS resource collection seem slower and more deliberate. For dirt collection it could be a longer scooping sound along with some form of animation instead of a rapid punch sound. All resource collection sounds should make the action feel less like punching it. Not only does this make it sound and feel more distinctly different than minecraft, it makes it feel more adult. Make the collection of dirt from grass need a shovel. This ties in with needing an axe to collect wood from a tree. Another thing that is one of the first things I notice about minecraft is the sharp corners to the leaf blocks. If you could somehow soften those corners or do something similar to the better foliage mod it'd also help visually separate VS from vanilla minecraft. Proper bushes would help as well.

I am looking at my WIP thread to see if there's anything on there that I feel fits the definition but while I think everything on that thread would improve the game I don't see anything that wasn't already mentioned that I think is necessary for a successful release on a platform like steam. I wouldn't do minecarts before releasing on a platform because it makes it more similar to the thing you are trying to differentiate it from. It's interesting to see what's on peoples wish lists though.

 

[Balduranne]

I can't agree more on the map. I know people consider the 'webmap' style of maps to be not immersive, but I feel like functionality is more important. Raw coordinates are a good start, but it's still hard to navigate in relation to other places. It's something that's very different from IRL where you have a better overview and landmarks on the horizon.

1 hour ago, Stroam said:

• Do more to make it look and feel less like minecraft

This is something that bugs me. I feel the game needs more originality in its setting to be different from Minecraft and other block games in general. That's why I'm pushing so hard for more fantasy elements/made up things (Whatever you wanna call it) - It doesn't have to be anything magical and can be still rooted in realism, but it'll add some much needed personal flavor to the game. 

I use Morrowind as an example of that a lot, because even after ~15 years I still remember many of the alchemical ingredients (Most of them were plants), fauna and materials in that game, whereas the more 'realistic' Skyrim or Oblivion had so many generic, IRL alchemical ingredients that I couldn't tell them apart even when I was playing them. Point is, you don't have to constrain yourself with what exists outside your window just to keep things making sense.

[tony Liberatto]

5 hours ago, Stroam said:

 

• Do more to make it look and feel less like minecraft
  • I watched a video of a person playing VS and they first thing they said upon loading into a world is, "This is minecraft." They then dug up a dirt block and said it sounded and felt like minecraft. Now I know it doesn't sound like minecraft but there are quite a few block games on steam and they are not mistaken as minecraft. Many of them have a distinctly different visual style and incorporate a mix of blocky and non-blocky things. VS doesn't have those things. What VS does have is seraphs. So when entering a world for the first time the clothing menu pops up which is great and you see a representation of you but you don't see you in the world so while you know that's your character you don't associate it with you yet. This reinforces you are not Steve or Alex. Start the person in 3rd person mode with a notification somewhere on the screen. Upon clicking the notification, a box pops up quickly explaining the controls, another one on explaining the HUD, and a third one how to knap and where you can find the in-game tutorials. This tells you this is different than minecraft. Next change the feel of breaking blocks. One of minecrafts distinct features is the sound of rapidly hitting a block, well hitting blocks in general to collect them. Make VS resource collection seem slower and more deliberate. For dirt collection it could be a longer scooping sound along with some form of animation instead of a rapid punch sound. All resource collection sounds should make the action feel less like punching it. Not only does this make it sound and feel more distinctly different than minecraft, it makes it feel more adult. Make the collection of dirt from grass need a shovel. This ties in with needing an axe to collect wood from a tree. Another thing that is one of the first things I notice about minecraft is the sharp corners to the leaf blocks. If you could somehow soften those corners or do something similar to the better foliage mod it'd also help visually separate VS from vanilla minecraft. Proper bushes would help as well.

 

 

I would go so far as to completely remove the punching feature. For me, it is one of the most unbelievable and no immersive features of the game. Also, it is one of the trademarks of Minecraft. Everyone knows about the "Punching a tree" feature.

So, I would require every block to be broken with a tool, but only if it is being actually broken. If the player needs dirt he/she needs to use a shovel, not his fists. What sense does that make anyway?

If it is an item or appliance, like a lamp, or a chest the player could shift right click, but again, no punching. No breaking of something that I do not want to be broken.

[tony Liberatto]

5 hours ago, Stroam said:

• Configurable difficulty level
  • No. Since modding is a selling point configurable difficulty level is not needed at the start.
•  

 

I strongly disagree with this statement. The player should not be at the mercy of mod makes to make the game enjoyable. 

Mod makers have a function in modern games, but the game should always be playable by itself. We already had this discussion in the forums, there is no way that modders will make mods to accommodate every single player wish. They make mods depending on what they like. At least that is the truth for me.  I can't imagine making a mod for something that in my opinion is irrelevant.   A difficult slider improves the success of any game, as every player can choose its own settings. It is a common feature of almost all successful games nowadays.

Just open Ark Survival Evolved and go through all the options you have. 

[Stroam]

5 hours ago, tony Liberatto said:

there is no way that modders will make mods to accommodate every single player wish.

Nor will any game difficulty do so either.

5 hours ago, tony Liberatto said:

It is a common feature of almost all successful games nowadays.

Let's take a look at similar games.

https://subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Game_Modes - survival, hardcore, creative, and survival with no food or water requirements

https://staxel.wikia.com/wiki/Game_Modes - creative, regular

https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Farm_Maps - different farm maps

fortresscraft evolved - survival and creative

https://planetexplorers.gamepedia.com/Game_Modes - story mode, adventure mode(open world), build mode(creative)

My Time at Portia - just regular

Stellar Overload - https://steamcommunity.com/app/397150/discussions/0/2592234299547613909/ - released with just story mode and creative mode

Younder - https://steamcommunity.com/app/580200/discussions/0/1458455461475626977/ - no difficulty levels

VS already has a creative mode and a normal gameplay mode. As far as I've seen, that's enough for "the majority of initial player experiences are positive".

 

[Tyron]

Maybe not configurable difficulty level, but configurable complexity level? Or like a minecraft playstyle (e.g. 1 ore = 1 ingot, charcoal can be made in the firepit, etc.) ? I fear the extensive TFC like mechanics may throw off a lot of players who think this game plays like minecraft and down vote it based on that.

[Bloodwyn]

• Geographical overhaul. Making the world feel more like an actual world instead of an infinite grid by showing the player (or at least the option to see) the generated world map like Dwarf Fortress does. Maybe even mark some points of interest like NPC cities and dangerous locations (goblin town, necromancer tower equivalents). I've always been more eager to travel thousands of blocks when I knew I had a destination. Randomly wandering in hopes of finding something isn't as appealing imo. Seasons, climactic bands and weather (possibly with cold/heat effects on the player) should be present.
• NPC states, cultures etc. A deep and organic NPC presence in the world can be a key selling point and can multiply the replay value of the game. The possibility to be a part of an NPC community (perhaps even manage NPCs) could be a funner and more organic alternative to solitude and automation. Trade should be important, but it should lay on a bed of economic dynamic (like the kinds of commodities produced in each village/city, the demand for others, etc). NPCs can extend play by (potentially) hundreds of hours, and depth in NPC cultures and dynamics offer a reason for the player to want to play again once he/she gets bored with the current world. I hate to bring up DF again, but I personally know people that have been playing one world for years and thousands of hours, and are continuing to this day because of the depth of NPC cultures and dynamics.
• Armor smithing, Cloth and Leather work, Cooking (more immersive), Brewing (potions and alcohols) and Animal husbandry (look into Animania). Horses!

Above are what I believe are must-haves that will make or break it. The following are things that I would personally like to see before the game leaves early release:

• Ships and carts (not just boats or mine-carts). These would make trading complete. VS has limited character inventory space, it would only make sense to allow these methods of transporting goods and players. VS also encourages the player to set up mines in different locations, and carts/ships would just make the travel between mines more immersive and convenient. It think if done right, full sized ship mechanics would REALLY set VS apart from other voxel games, especially if paired with immersive NPC economics. If ships are a thing, perhaps a crew could be too.
• Random lore. I really hate the idea of having premade lore in VS. I think this game should put no chips in a pre-made story. I strongly suggest that lore be generated with each world, instead of trying to come up with a single setting. A story written by the authors of the game will fizzle out after a while, and serve as no more than an obstacle for those who want to deviate in their own server setting. However, lore generated uniquely for each new world ensures that the sense of mystery and the wish for discovery never cease to be present. Creating lore algorithms may be a bit of a challenge, but it's possible and it leaves us with a system that can leave all the focus on developing game mechanics.
• Character customization. I think Seraphs are an interesting idea, but I strongly believe that allowing players to be humans will be a simple change that will appease MANY people. I personally like to be something familiar; having an alter-ego that someone personally created can only enhance the experience.
• Jewel crafting, strategic/economic metagame,  player managed NPCs that replace automation (mentioned briefly above), mythological creatures and deeper combat are some of the things I think would make the game feel truly complete.

[tony Liberatto]

6 hours ago, Stroam said:

Nor will any game difficulty do so either.

Let's take a look at similar games.

https://subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Game_Modes - survival, hardcore, creative, and survival with no food or water requirements

https://staxel.wikia.com/wiki/Game_Modes - creative, regular

https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Farm_Maps - different farm maps

fortresscraft evolved - survival and creative

https://planetexplorers.gamepedia.com/Game_Modes - story mode, adventure mode(open world), build mode(creative)

My Time at Portia - just regular

Stellar Overload - https://steamcommunity.com/app/397150/discussions/0/2592234299547613909/ - released with just story mode and creative mode

Younder - https://steamcommunity.com/app/580200/discussions/0/1458455461475626977/ - no difficulty levels

VS already has a creative mode and a normal gameplay mode. As far as I've seen, that's enough for "the majority of initial player experiences are positive".

 

2

I believe in the right to freedom of choice. I believe you have the right to your opinion. What I do not understand is "Why would you be against configurable difficulty settings?".

No will be forced to use it. Games that offer this feature still have many mods. They are not exclusive. Mods will always be a welcome addition to most games.

Let's make a deal, you and everyone else that agrees with your point of view are free to not use the config page, adjust the game using only mods, make the mods to adjust the game to the way you like. I and the others will use both. And still, benefit from your mods.

I am not trying to fight you Stroam,  I really truly can not understand why would anyone be opposed to having the game more flexible to personal taste.

[Balduranne]

On the topic of difficulty settings, I'll just say this - Starbound had character-specific difficulty levels that offered you a different experience, and I'm glad I could pick the one I liked instead of having to scour the internet for a mod that would make it play like I want. 

 

6 hours ago, Bloodwyn said:

• Random lore. I really hate the idea of having premade lore in VS. I think this game should put no chips in a pre-made story. I strongly suggest that lore be generated with each world, instead of trying to come up with a single setting. A story written by the authors of the game will fizzle out after a while, and serve as no more than an obstacle for those who want to deviate in their own server setting. However, lore generated uniquely for each new world ensures that the sense of mystery and the wish for discovery never cease to be present. Creating lore algorithms may be a bit of a challenge, but it's possible and it leaves us with a system that can leave all the focus on developing game mechanics.

I... Really don't know how that would work in practice. I don't really like the idea of having random lore, because the quality of writing would definitely suffer if it's something that needs to be generated, Plus I think that if the lore were random each time, it would be pretty meaningless

[Bloodwyn]

51 minutes ago, Balduranne said:

I... Really don't know how that would work in practice. I don't really like the idea of having random lore, because the quality of writing would definitely suffer if it's something that needs to be generated, Plus I think that if the lore were random each time, it would be pretty meaningless

Well, to an extent the lore would remain an abstraction. The real generation would be landmasses, dungeons, NPC cultures and the dynamics of everything in between; the lore would be nothing but an interpretation of these dynamics. This is the way Dwarf Fortress handles lore generation: it simply generates the creatures and the lands and simulates their existence, and lore would simply be extrapolated from the interactions of these elements. This sounds very simplistic, but you actually end up with extremely detailed and organic lore. Every new world would be fundamentally unique. The world would feel alive, and your presence in it would feel much more authentic and immersive. Having a pre-written story would only limit the audience imo.

Also I'm not quite sure what you mean by meaningless. After-all, the focus of sand-box games isn't narration of a story. This game generates an entirely new world each game anyway, would that render game-play meaningless? 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Bloodwyn

[Tyron]

@tony Liberatto Stroam is not against configurable difficulty. He responded "No" as in, he does not deem it as a must-have for a "finished" VS

@Bloodwyn While that would be quite interesting, a dwarf fortress level of lore generation would be incredibly challenging to achieve in a 3d world. I mean it already took years for them to make it in an ascii 2d world. I don't think this is quite viable in my current position as the sole programmer on ~everything.

[Bloodwyn]

57 minutes ago, Tyron said:

 

@Bloodwyn While that would be quite interesting, a dwarf fortress level of lore generation would be incredibly challenging to achieve in a 3d world. I mean it already took years for them to make it in an ascii 2d world. I don't think this is quite viable in my current position as the sole programmer on ~everything.

Well, I'm not saying VS should aspire to reach the levels of depth of DF, that would indeed be very difficult. I used Dwarf Fortress as an example. Millenaire is a minecraft mod that uses a similar formula as the one I'm thinking of. It wouldn't be necessary to have the level of complexity found in DF to have a nice and organic lore.

[Tyron]

Millenaire has (textual) lore? Show me

 

[Balduranne]

When I said meaningless, I meant that if the lore is generated separately for each save, it would not carry any weight. I feel like that would also take away agency from Luke (The writer) in regards to any world building for the game overall. Finally, given how rare the lore pieces are right now, it would be difficult to actually get any picture of your world if it always changed. And nothing is stopping people from having their own setting for their own server

1 hour ago, Bloodwyn said:

Well, I'm not saying VS should aspire to reach the levels of depth of DF, that would indeed be very difficult. I used Dwarf Fortress as an example. Millenaire is a minecraft mod that uses a similar formula as the one I'm thinking of. It wouldn't be necessary to have the level of complexity found in DF to have a nice and organic lore.

I'd like to hear more about this too, as I could never get Millenaire to work.

[copygirl]

As for me, while not directly game related, it would definitely be "not require 2 (extra) accounts to play the game". Definitely make it possible to play the game with just a Steam account. Also integrate with the Steam API so you can join the same server a friend is in and invite them and such.

[Bloodwyn]

11 hours ago, Tyron said:

Millenaire has (textual) lore? Show me

 

Well, to be fair the only textual lore is in the forms of quests and diplomatic events between villages. I'm not sure if any of it is recorded in tomes or scrolls. What I'm alluding by bringing up Millenaire, however, is the fact that the stories are simply generated by interactions between the cultures, the player and the environment; these are in the form of text in the chatbox and quests, but it wouldn't be that difficult to extend that to another form. A player can bring down the enemy of his favorite village, he/she can unite what were once eternal enemies, or liberate a village from a burden; the villages grow/shrink in population and territorial size as consequences of players, environments and other cultures. In a similar vein, the stories in VS could just be about the world at hand; the player could uncover a village being harassed by a particularly large nest of drifters nearby, and destroying the drifters could cause said village to grow and prosper, influencing the course of dynamics between other villages nearby who depended on its prosperity. Then, as a result, the heroic actions of the player could be transcribed onto scrolls, and would be made by a mix and match of various templates of strings according to how things went down; this example is poorly thought-up but it serves to show what I'm thinking about. Of course this means that individual bits of lore like the ones currently being found in ruins STILL have a place. But they would remain just that: individual bits of lore.

9 hours ago, Balduranne said:

When I said meaningless, I meant that if the lore is generated separately for each save, it would not carry any weight. I feel like that would also take away agency from Luke (The writer) in regards to any world building for the game overall. Finally, given how rare the lore pieces are right now, it would be difficult to actually get any picture of your world if it always changed. And nothing is stopping people from having their own setting for their own server

Well, I'm still not sure I understand. Why would it carry weight if the story remained the same? The point of starting a new save isn't to continue where you left off, so why does it matter that something isn't carried over from the previous save? Each save is an entirely different world, why should the story be the exact same? Also, it wouldn't mean that there would be no efforts in world building. It would simply mean that all the efforts would go into creating the conditions for lore generation to be good. Dedicating time to a specific story should be done by the community. If the game is to have lore, it would be better if it were organic and directly tied to elements of the world at hand. I just think the risk-to-reward of incorporating a specific story into a sandbox game (where each world is an entirely separate and unique planet) is too low to be worth it. Even in the best case scenario, a perfect story that speaks to everyone will still barely make up for the resources invested in creating it. But even in an OK scenario where the story ends up being high quality, it will be nothing more than an interesting extra feature. There is too much risk that the story won't be cherished by most of the audience, and it could actually diminish the efforts made on the technical side of development. Having dynamic, unique lore or no lore at all are much more flexible alternatives.

 

[redram]

Back from long vacation.  So my late responses:

- In game maps.  Seriously.  No seriously.  People will miss these if they are not present.

- Finalized prospecting.  Personally I like it how it is, but in any case it needs to be 'finalized' before release.  It's too huge a part of the game to go switching it about wholesale after release.

- More content.  Again, I really thing it should have at least a sketch of all the major TFC stuff.  leather working, armor, basic cooking, more detailed farming, quern, animal domestication, fishing, etc.  Also steel tech at least.  Possibly also a better handle on how weapons are expected to balance, and how bows play into it all.  Ideally a detailed hunting mechanic, if such is the plan.  Also seasons and an accompanying nerf to berry bushes, and getting healing in it's final form.  Don't release the game with the food and healing in their current stopgap state.

- Some basic server protections for SMP play (both protecting the server, and claiming and protecting player property), plus whatever backend stuff.  I don't know that stuff.

Nice-to-haves: at least 1 mountable animal, some basic mechanical stuff (wooden cogs to power querns, at least).  Also SMP prism of some kind, as Tony suggested.

[MICHAEL CAMPBELL]

I would really like to be able to make Item frames for chests. And I would adore making right click pryoritize open storage before hot bar.

I also think that steel smithing and anything that can bring a bit more of a end game tech power automation of any kind. 

It would be fantastic to be able to really have a 3 phase aproach 

Phase 1. Just be able to survive a day in game.

Phase 2 mid game build collect grow . In this stage there is going to be a lot of grind the player is going to have to aquire everything they need to not just survive but thrive. I think the game is almost complet to this Phase.

Phase 3 Lore story and tech. In this phase the player is encouraged to build fantastic structures and really flesh out there creative will within the environment. to this end more content needs to be added that allows the player to qucikly manufacture tools produce food and automate grindy Game play so that they can spend time collecting rare resources, do other things or spend less time doing survival things and more time exploring and building. I really think multi block machines and automation would be fantastic to add in this end game phase.

I think that the temporal storms and drifters and lore is very interesting at this time but It seems to have very little point in the game and dosent seem relevent. It really would be nice to do more things to tie it into the world, to build a story and to encurage the player to discover and explore for rewards lost tech . Would love to see the lore not only tell a story but give the player both understanding and tools, rewards that help us ether right a wrong or participate in the restoration of a horible disaster. Perhaps even introduce a very powerful protagonist to finaly somhow confront or defeat.

Edited July 19, 2020 by MICHAEL CAMPBELL