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What are the must-haves for a "finished" Vintage Story?


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On 6/2/2018 at 3:58 PM, tony Liberatto said:

The only other thing that I believe is a must is something akin to NEI, after a while it gets really annoying to have to go looking for a mod thread in the forum just to find out how to craft that one block or item. There needs to be a way in game to find how to craft all the items and blocks, including those added by mods, and including those that are crafted outside the grid.

 

The concept that I've always loved for this would be finding in-game items that give you "lore" that unlocks recipes in an NEI like system. 

What I like to imagine when playing games/modpacks like this where you start with only stone age technology and you have to work your way into more futuristic tech is that you are the last (that you know of) person in a world long since destroyed and so all technology has been lost. When I first played TFC I wanted to build a starting area at bedrock level where the player(s) wake up from cryogenic sleep to find that much of the shelter has been destroyed and your memory has been lost from being frozen so long. There would be journals that you would find to explain this and a general idea of what happened to the world just before you are teleported to the surface, but everything else you would find through playing. Sadly, the way TFC time worked and my lack of knowledge using command blocks made this not an option for me.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/5/2018 at 5:13 PM, Tyron said:

Maybe not configurable difficulty level, but configurable complexity level? Or like a minecraft playstyle (e.g. 1 ore = 1 ingot, charcoal can be made in the firepit, etc.) ? I fear the extensive TFC like mechanics may throw off a lot of players who think this game plays like minecraft and down vote it based on that.

Necro-replying here, but I just responded to the poll with a long posting and I saw that you said this and I really agree with it.

The thing Minecraft does really well is being relatively easy to just jump into and get started once you know a couple of basic rules. The default survival setting in Vintage Story is probably too difficult for the average gamer to get into.

I think that the solution to this is to add an option for a more minecraft like ore generation, but maybe there is some other solution. 

There is also a pretty interesting video here that you might want to check out

 

 

Edited by John Martinez
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  • 4 weeks later...
Quote

The default survival setting in Vintage Story is probably too difficult for the average gamer to get into.

Vintage Story players likely fall into two groups:

  • experienced Minecraft players (who've maybe played modded Minecraft as well) who come to VS for its beauty and everything it does better
  • experienced gamers who despise Minecraft but are willing to try a more challenging survival game.  Most serious gamers see Minecraft as a game for young kids, or maybe the game they themselves played a long time ago but have now moved on from.  VS is potentially a Minecraft for serious gamers?

Given how ubiquitous Minecraft is, I just don't see it as possible for a player to discover VS without any awareness of Minecraft.

I think for new VS players, the one thing which is most off-putting is the knapping mechanic (and the clay forming mechanc).  It's a nuisance, and requires patience and some accurate mouse work - and it becomes very repetitive on the first 2 days of the game as you go through knives.  I think a player who has no patience will stop playing within the first 2 hours - which is a shame because once a player is able to do copper casting, the game opens up.   This also likely means some Game Journalists / Reviewers will hate the game before giving it a real chance - journalists usually only play a game for a few hours max before writing a review.  My solution would be to include an auto-knapping and auto-clay forming mechanism as an option and have it "on" by default, but communicate to players that for a more challenging / immersive experience they can switch it off.

I don't see the game as "difficult" otherwise.  Food is abundant in the form of berries.   Drifters move slowly and signal their presence with a sound, so they are easily avoided.

 

I hope my reply isn't too off topic - seems OK if Tyron's real question here is "when will the game be ready to leave early access"?

 

Edited by radfast
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Back on topic, I have just exhausted all the mechanisms in the game currently (1.12.14) after several days of single-player gameplay.

I mean I have:

  • iron tools
  • leather backpacks
  • chain armour and gamboised leggings (I don't want plate, movement is too slow)
  • a fully secure farm of Terra Preta and ample seeds and fertiliser, with every type of food including Cabbage
  • a house with solid stone and glass walls, and a plumbline for reinforcement (which is not at all necessary except maybe in PvP I guess?)
  • a cellar full of sealed food of every kind
  • lanterns with silver lining
  • 5-sail windmill for a Helvehammer and Quern
  • opened up one Translocator
  • well-stocked apiary and fruit orchard
  • trapped each kind of animal, and have some chickens and sheep on the way to becoming domesticated (that's kind of slow)
  • traded a few goods with four types of trader, and have 50 gears
  • have 1 rough diamond
  • survived two medium temporal storms (beautifully implemented - they are so unpleasant to experience that I now make sure I am near an in-game bed to sleep through them!)
  • installed 3 mods (CarryCapacity, LazyWarlock's Tweaks and Anvil Metal Recovery)

It's been an incredible journey, and I am awestruck by the beauty of this game.  I also love its integrity, the way each in-game mechanism has been so carefully implemented.

I have made a careful personal list of bugs, suggestions, and 10 little touches in the game which made me smile - I'll be communicating these to the developers separately.

But now ... I've run out of things to do.   Even when I took the translocator, the biomes at the destination were very similar to the continent around my home base.  OK I didn't yet find pumpkin or cactus fruit in the wild, I didn't find any gold / gold quartz ore, I didn't find sulphur yet, and I still have not filled even 1 compost barrel - but none of these things prevents progression.  Also I didn't find an Echo Chamber(?) yet...

The main things I feel are missing from a finished game are:

  • further tech tree progression, eventually to steel and some uses for the currently unused metals - the presence of unused metals and ores certainly makes the game feel "unfinished", especially given the strong emphasis on realistic mining tech and geology  (the Display Case 😍)
  • a drowning mechanism - the game is obviously "unfinished" if I can stand under water indefinitely (and also animals should drown)
  • seasons - with an ample farm, the only reason it makes sense to have a cellar filled with preserves is if winter and thin pickings are on the way
  • more survival challenges in different game regions, for example it should be extremely challenging to traverse (or live in) snowy wilderness, desert, high mountains - this would require a thirst and temperature implementation for the player
  • more scope for building complex machinery out of wooden axles and gears - the current implementation is lovely but their uses are limited to building the Helvehammer and Quern and those have to be built in a very specific way, I'd like to see additional scope for creativity here (something like Lego Technic...) so that players could build crazy large wooden machines and put them on Youtube...
  • more challenging mobs - so far I have simply encountered 5 levels of drifter and they all move in the same way, and are easy to kill if you have enough space to kite them - the game feels unfinished with only one type of hostile mob (OK there are wolves, and rams, and locusts down deep, but there's nothing terrifying)
  • I'm not sure I have received the full Lovecraftian themes promised on the home page - this could be much deeper
  • I am not sure the temporal concept is fully implemented yet, seems like the only purpose of the temporal wheel is to produce periodic temporal storms and the only purposes of the temporal gear are to reset the player spawn location and unlock a teleporter
  • although excellent in concept and beautifully implemented, having now played through it I feel like the tech tree progression is actually quite linear - a lot of elements are gated by single specific items.  I'd like to see alternative pathways, some shortcuts for players who are really lucky/smart.  A sandbox game should allow players to develop their own ingenious ways of solving problems.   (Actually writing this I just realised, Ore Blasting Bomb is a shortcut, and the player could be lucky and find black coal in a Ruin in the early game.)

The only "ingenious" solution I've come up in my own play-through is to drive a Fox into my fenced-in farm area, for auto protection.

Edited by radfast
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I love the game from the first minute I saw it. That is just 7 or 8 weeks ago. The Details are so so good, love them all:-)

Alle the great suggestions from the player formerly I like to have in the game but what I really miss first is

to craft a boat, fishes and fishing with fishing rod and/or fishing trap, cows to use milk for making cheese, to use the

soybeans for tofu also new recipes to use tofu instead cheese ( for vegan players ) and the fruit trees and herbs  which I saw

in the crativ modus integrated in the game ( also new recipes for this ingredients )

I think it's not necessary to have all the colours of apples. A red one is nice 🙂 But it would be nice to have specific fruit trees

for the different bioms. Coconut palms in the Jungle, for example an pineapple  and so on...

Last but not least I would love it very much to install mods by 1 click 🙂

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I've realised the tech tree is not so linear as I thought:

  • there are three different paths to Bronze  (finding Cassiterite, finding Bismuth, or a lot of panning!)
  • there are three different paths to Leather (limestone, chalk or borax) and three different sizes of animal obviously
  • it's not necessary to have every crop, the player could for example focus on only one type of vegetable and only one type of grain - either with different NPK requirements or matching whichever source of fertiliser the player has
  • some key missing resources can be purchased from traders, if you are lucky with traders - or if you are very lucky you can find Blasting Powder in a Cracked Vessel - either way could allow for mining of higher tier metals even without casting Bronze, so a player could leap-frog into the Iron Age
  • the full linen armour provides an alternative to leather+metal based armours - but I agree with this post, it would be nice to have additional armour pathways, for example linen + chain so that the player's armour is not gated by leather.

It may be that as the game develops into Steel and other post-Iron age technologies, the tech tree will branch some more.  I feel it would be good if players were forced (by limited resources and not only player time) to make a choice between advanced mining, advanced farming or advanced fighting.

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After about 6 weeks of intensive playing and especially experiencing the early game both in SP and on servers, I think I may be able to throw in 50 cents in this conversation. It may be that my insight will change in the course of coming months or years. If so, I will update this post and bump it in some way if deemed relevant enough. Here's my current view on VS and its priorities for further development.

First, my view on short term priorities, as expressed in Discord in two messages (1 & 2) :

In the current state I think it's wisest to prioritise enhancing the appeal for new players, both in sp and mp, in order to gain a broader playerbase and expand server and modding communities. That would imply focus on enhancing exploration with more environmental features (flora, fauna, food sources and chains, organic resources, and structures and NPCs + interaction), and enhancing early game experience with more alternative (not easier!) ways to get going on your first explorative adventures in both sp and mp. I think it's not of much use spoiling the veterans in the community yearning for more end-game content as that need can already (at least partially) be catered for by the present modding community.
Think addition of trees/bushes like yew, juniper, beech, walnut, chestnut, almond, hazel and holly, and vines for an alternative for twine, the possibility to create wickerwork for simple walls and wattle and daub, fishing and trapping, more herbivores and carnivores, herds, birbs and fishies, more significant inland seas, simple canoes or rafts to navigate larger bodies of water, mast as additional food source (proteins, in season!), additional edible roots (yam, cassave, peanuts), usage of resin and/or rope to reinforce tools as to enhance their durability, fruit trees, orchards with an orcharder, acres and pastures with a farmer and a simple shack, traveling NPCs like hunters and herders, maybe even bandits, various other small, humble structures of fellow survivor NPCs, possible animal companions like jackdaws, geese and small dogs, horses, donkeys and mules, etcetera. All additions that spice the early survival and exploration game and both broaden and deepen the experience for new players. Needles to say that anything added to enhance the early game will also have added value to late game, through various recipes and mechanics connected to later development stages, whether that be via adjustments/additions in the vanilla game or through the creativity of the existing modding community.

Second, my thoughts on 'When will VS be finished for beta-release?':

  • Realisation of a significant part of an early phase experience expansion as described above. This to ensure the game attracts a sufficienlty broad audience that actually keeps on playing in both new sp and mp worlds (multiple server activity) because they enjoy the early phase of the game because of its attractive diversity.
  • Improvement of the early game experience on servers in line with these two suggestions, both aimed to ensure it will be appealing for players to try out new servers, to broaden their horizon, expand their network within the VS community and feed new initiatives for servers and mods, which on their turn serve to expand the VS player community (and business!):
  • Expanded the 'lore' of the game and the rewards related to unravelling it in-game to such an extent that most players experience a persistent urge and joy to keep exploring the world until they discocered it all, even after they fully completed the technology development tree and started building and chiselling their ass off.
  • Made sure that creation of mods/modpacks aimed to create alternative Vintage Stories are sufficiently supported with the mods API. Relevant features to think of in this respect are:
    • Easy VS modding through adjustment of anything that does not require code modifications: textures, speech banks, item names, recipes, addition of structures, NPCs and interactions, and similar features. This also enables the less gifted coders to modify the game in order to create their own 'Vintage Story' based on the foundations of the vanilla game.
    • World generation alternatives like alternative biome configurations, additional flora, fauna and structure types, and additional NPCs. Preferably also supporting some form of 'map based world generation' in the same manner as that was done for the LOTRmod for Minecraft. This enables modders to create their own fantasy worlds, which can tremendously broaden the storyline options for players in both sp and mp to enjoy.

As noted, I may get some more/altered insights later on, but for now, this should do.

Hope this may help a bit in getting this already great game and brand reach new heights.

Cheers!
🍻

Edited by AlteOgre
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