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What are the must-haves for a "finished" Vintage Story?


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On 6/2/2018 at 3:58 PM, tony Liberatto said:

The only other thing that I believe is a must is something akin to NEI, after a while it gets really annoying to have to go looking for a mod thread in the forum just to find out how to craft that one block or item. There needs to be a way in game to find how to craft all the items and blocks, including those added by mods, and including those that are crafted outside the grid.


The concept that I've always loved for this would be finding in-game items that give you "lore" that unlocks recipes in an NEI like system. 

What I like to imagine when playing games/modpacks like this where you start with only stone age technology and you have to work your way into more futuristic tech is that you are the last (that you know of) person in a world long since destroyed and so all technology has been lost. When I first played TFC I wanted to build a starting area at bedrock level where the player(s) wake up from cryogenic sleep to find that much of the shelter has been destroyed and your memory has been lost from being frozen so long. There would be journals that you would find to explain this and a general idea of what happened to the world just before you are teleported to the surface, but everything else you would find through playing. Sadly, the way TFC time worked and my lack of knowledge using command blocks made this not an option for me.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/5/2018 at 5:13 PM, Tyron said:

Maybe not configurable difficulty level, but configurable complexity level? Or like a minecraft playstyle (e.g. 1 ore = 1 ingot, charcoal can be made in the firepit, etc.) ? I fear the extensive TFC like mechanics may throw off a lot of players who think this game plays like minecraft and down vote it based on that.

Necro-replying here, but I just responded to the poll with a long posting and I saw that you said this and I really agree with it.

The thing Minecraft does really well is being relatively easy to just jump into and get started once you know a couple of basic rules. The default survival setting in Vintage Story is probably too difficult for the average gamer to get into.

I think that the solution to this is to add an option for a more minecraft like ore generation, but maybe there is some other solution. 

There is also a pretty interesting video here that you might want to check out



Edited by John Martinez
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  • 4 weeks later...

The default survival setting in Vintage Story is probably too difficult for the average gamer to get into.

Vintage Story players likely fall into two groups:

  • experienced Minecraft players (who've maybe played modded Minecraft as well) who come to VS for its beauty and everything it does better
  • experienced gamers who despise Minecraft but are willing to try a more challenging survival game.  Most serious gamers see Minecraft as a game for young kids, or maybe the game they themselves played a long time ago but have now moved on from.  VS is potentially a Minecraft for serious gamers?

Given how ubiquitous Minecraft is, I just don't see it as possible for a player to discover VS without any awareness of Minecraft.

I think for new VS players, the one thing which is most off-putting is the knapping mechanic (and the clay forming mechanc).  It's a nuisance, and requires patience and some accurate mouse work - and it becomes very repetitive on the first 2 days of the game as you go through knives.  I think a player who has no patience will stop playing within the first 2 hours - which is a shame because once a player is able to do copper casting, the game opens up.   This also likely means some Game Journalists / Reviewers will hate the game before giving it a real chance - journalists usually only play a game for a few hours max before writing a review.  My solution would be to include an auto-knapping and auto-clay forming mechanism as an option and have it "on" by default, but communicate to players that for a more challenging / immersive experience they can switch it off.

I don't see the game as "difficult" otherwise.  Food is abundant in the form of berries.   Drifters move slowly and signal their presence with a sound, so they are easily avoided.


I hope my reply isn't too off topic - seems OK if Tyron's real question here is "when will the game be ready to leave early access"?


Edited by radfast
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Back on topic, I have just exhausted all the mechanisms in the game currently (1.12.14) after several days of single-player gameplay.

I mean I have:

  • iron tools
  • leather backpacks
  • chain armour and gamboised leggings (I don't want plate, movement is too slow)
  • a fully secure farm of Terra Preta and ample seeds and fertiliser, with every type of food including Cabbage
  • a house with solid stone and glass walls, and a plumbline for reinforcement (which is not at all necessary except maybe in PvP I guess?)
  • a cellar full of sealed food of every kind
  • lanterns with silver lining
  • 5-sail windmill for a Helvehammer and Quern
  • opened up one Translocator
  • well-stocked apiary and fruit orchard
  • trapped each kind of animal, and have some chickens and sheep on the way to becoming domesticated (that's kind of slow)
  • traded a few goods with four types of trader, and have 50 gears
  • have 1 rough diamond
  • survived two medium temporal storms (beautifully implemented - they are so unpleasant to experience that I now make sure I am near an in-game bed to sleep through them!)
  • installed 3 mods (CarryCapacity, LazyWarlock's Tweaks and Anvil Metal Recovery)

It's been an incredible journey, and I am awestruck by the beauty of this game.  I also love its integrity, the way each in-game mechanism has been so carefully implemented.

I have made a careful personal list of bugs, suggestions, and 10 little touches in the game which made me smile - I'll be communicating these to the developers separately.

But now ... I've run out of things to do.   Even when I took the translocator, the biomes at the destination were very similar to the continent around my home base.  OK I didn't yet find pumpkin or cactus fruit in the wild, I didn't find any gold / gold quartz ore, I didn't find sulphur yet, and I still have not filled even 1 compost barrel - but none of these things prevents progression.  Also I didn't find an Echo Chamber(?) yet...

The main things I feel are missing from a finished game are:

  • further tech tree progression, eventually to steel and some uses for the currently unused metals - the presence of unused metals and ores certainly makes the game feel "unfinished", especially given the strong emphasis on realistic mining tech and geology  (the Display Case 😍)
  • a drowning mechanism - the game is obviously "unfinished" if I can stand under water indefinitely (and also animals should drown)
  • seasons - with an ample farm, the only reason it makes sense to have a cellar filled with preserves is if winter and thin pickings are on the way
  • more survival challenges in different game regions, for example it should be extremely challenging to traverse (or live in) snowy wilderness, desert, high mountains - this would require a thirst and temperature implementation for the player
  • more scope for building complex machinery out of wooden axles and gears - the current implementation is lovely but their uses are limited to building the Helvehammer and Quern and those have to be built in a very specific way, I'd like to see additional scope for creativity here (something like Lego Technic...) so that players could build crazy large wooden machines and put them on Youtube...
  • more challenging mobs - so far I have simply encountered 5 levels of drifter and they all move in the same way, and are easy to kill if you have enough space to kite them - the game feels unfinished with only one type of hostile mob (OK there are wolves, and rams, and locusts down deep, but there's nothing terrifying)
  • I'm not sure I have received the full Lovecraftian themes promised on the home page - this could be much deeper
  • I am not sure the temporal concept is fully implemented yet, seems like the only purpose of the temporal wheel is to produce periodic temporal storms and the only purposes of the temporal gear are to reset the player spawn location and unlock a teleporter
  • although excellent in concept and beautifully implemented, having now played through it I feel like the tech tree progression is actually quite linear - a lot of elements are gated by single specific items.  I'd like to see alternative pathways, some shortcuts for players who are really lucky/smart.  A sandbox game should allow players to develop their own ingenious ways of solving problems.   (Actually writing this I just realised, Ore Blasting Bomb is a shortcut, and the player could be lucky and find black coal in a Ruin in the early game.)

The only "ingenious" solution I've come up in my own play-through is to drive a Fox into my fenced-in farm area, for auto protection.

Edited by radfast
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I love the game from the first minute I saw it. That is just 7 or 8 weeks ago. The Details are so so good, love them all:-)

Alle the great suggestions from the player formerly I like to have in the game but what I really miss first is

to craft a boat, fishes and fishing with fishing rod and/or fishing trap, cows to use milk for making cheese, to use the

soybeans for tofu also new recipes to use tofu instead cheese ( for vegan players ) and the fruit trees and herbs  which I saw

in the crativ modus integrated in the game ( also new recipes for this ingredients )

I think it's not necessary to have all the colours of apples. A red one is nice 🙂 But it would be nice to have specific fruit trees

for the different bioms. Coconut palms in the Jungle, for example an pineapple  and so on...

Last but not least I would love it very much to install mods by 1 click 🙂

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I've realised the tech tree is not so linear as I thought:

  • there are three different paths to Bronze  (finding Cassiterite, finding Bismuth, or a lot of panning!)
  • there are three different paths to Leather (limestone, chalk or borax) and three different sizes of animal obviously
  • it's not necessary to have every crop, the player could for example focus on only one type of vegetable and only one type of grain - either with different NPK requirements or matching whichever source of fertiliser the player has
  • some key missing resources can be purchased from traders, if you are lucky with traders - or if you are very lucky you can find Blasting Powder in a Cracked Vessel - either way could allow for mining of higher tier metals even without casting Bronze, so a player could leap-frog into the Iron Age
  • the full linen armour provides an alternative to leather+metal based armours - but I agree with this post, it would be nice to have additional armour pathways, for example linen + chain so that the player's armour is not gated by leather.

It may be that as the game develops into Steel and other post-Iron age technologies, the tech tree will branch some more.  I feel it would be good if players were forced (by limited resources and not only player time) to make a choice between advanced mining, advanced farming or advanced fighting.

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  • 3 weeks later...

After about 6 weeks of intensive playing and especially experiencing the early game both in SP and on servers, I think I may be able to throw in 50 cents in this conversation. It may be that my insight will change in the course of coming months or years. If so, I will update this post and bump it in some way if deemed relevant enough. Here's my current view on VS and its priorities for further development.

First, my view on short term priorities, as expressed in Discord in two messages (1 & 2) :

In the current state I think it's wisest to prioritise enhancing the appeal for new players, both in sp and mp, in order to gain a broader playerbase and expand server and modding communities. That would imply focus on enhancing exploration with more environmental features (flora, fauna, food sources and chains, organic resources, and structures and NPCs + interaction), and enhancing early game experience with more alternative (not easier!) ways to get going on your first explorative adventures in both sp and mp. I think it's not of much use spoiling the veterans in the community yearning for more end-game content as that need can already (at least partially) be catered for by the present modding community.
Think addition of trees/bushes like yew, juniper, beech, walnut, chestnut, almond, hazel and holly, and vines for an alternative for twine, the possibility to create wickerwork for simple walls and wattle and daub, fishing and trapping, more herbivores and carnivores, herds, birbs and fishies, more significant inland seas, simple canoes or rafts to navigate larger bodies of water, mast as additional food source (proteins, in season!), additional edible roots (yam, cassave, peanuts), usage of resin and/or rope to reinforce tools as to enhance their durability, fruit trees, orchards with an orcharder, acres and pastures with a farmer and a simple shack, traveling NPCs like hunters and herders, maybe even bandits, various other small, humble structures of fellow survivor NPCs, possible animal companions like jackdaws, geese and small dogs, horses, donkeys and mules, etcetera. All additions that spice the early survival and exploration game and both broaden and deepen the experience for new players. Needles to say that anything added to enhance the early game will also have added value to late game, through various recipes and mechanics connected to later development stages, whether that be via adjustments/additions in the vanilla game or through the creativity of the existing modding community.

Second, my thoughts on 'When will VS be finished for beta-release?':

  • Realisation of a significant part of an early phase experience expansion as described above. This to ensure the game attracts a sufficienlty broad audience that actually keeps on playing in both new sp and mp worlds (multiple server activity) because they enjoy the early phase of the game because of its attractive diversity.
  • Improvement of the early game experience on servers in line with these two suggestions, both aimed to ensure it will be appealing for players to try out new servers, to broaden their horizon, expand their network within the VS community and feed new initiatives for servers and mods, which on their turn serve to expand the VS player community (and business!):
  • Expanded the 'lore' of the game and the rewards related to unravelling it in-game to such an extent that most players experience a persistent urge and joy to keep exploring the world until they discocered it all, even after they fully completed the technology development tree and started building and chiselling their ass off.
  • Made sure that creation of mods/modpacks aimed to create alternative Vintage Stories are sufficiently supported with the mods API. Relevant features to think of in this respect are:
    • Easy VS modding through adjustment of anything that does not require code modifications: textures, speech banks, item names, recipes, addition of structures, NPCs and interactions, and similar features. This also enables the less gifted coders to modify the game in order to create their own 'Vintage Story' based on the foundations of the vanilla game.
    • World generation alternatives like alternative biome configurations, additional flora, fauna and structure types, and additional NPCs. Preferably also supporting some form of 'map based world generation' in the same manner as that was done for the LOTRmod for Minecraft. This enables modders to create their own fantasy worlds, which can tremendously broaden the storyline options for players in both sp and mp to enjoy.

As noted, I may get some more/altered insights later on, but for now, this should do.

Hope this may help a bit in getting this already great game and brand reach new heights.


Edited by AlteOgre
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  • 1 year later...

As the game currently stands I would say it's safe to upgrade from early access/alpha to beta. As a late comer to the game and a multi-player server I have been able to go from stone age to steel relatively easily even without help. I do rely on advice from other players for things like making blue cheese (still haven't managed it yet) that aren't clearly explained in the handbook, gearing for mechanical power is also vague. For most things I didn't understand I checked the wiki or experimented in creative mode. Now I'm being asked for tips on our server or being a roaming windmill inspector. The only things I could ask for would be things like "grinding in a quern" to minimize new player confusion and more info on making steel for the newbies as well as more info on making blue cheese for me. How can I live up to my name if I can't make the one last kind of cheese? 😂 Documentation on that is almost nonexistent or vague at best.

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The game needs a lot before I would call it "finished". Even Minecraft wasn't a "mature" game until just a few years ago, and even then that's really just because they decided to stop making real updates for it anymore. 

  • Every single biome needs more content, especially oceans and cold biomes. They are mostly barren right now. Flora, fauna, unique ruins, special resources, we need all of it. I also think it would be very very good if you could implement any of the stuff that Ivan's made into the worldgen. Even if it's behind a 'fantasy worldgen' toggle or something, I would freak out if I ever saw those giant mushroom things or the awesome wooden towers from those screenshots. Coming across stuff like that while wandering the world would really make Minecraft look cheap in comparison and I guarantee it would get people to buy the game. 
  • The temperature system needs refinement so heatstroke is just as dangerous as freezing to death. Drowning should be included in the game unless there's an intentional reason for seraphs being able to breathe underwater. I think it's really weird that people take what are obvious gameplay limitations and try to make lore out of it. Caves should have more environmental hazards that aren't temporal. Cave ins, rock slides, poison fumes, stuff like that. 
  • A combat overhaul. Right now we have the most barebones system possible and it's really not something I think about in most situations. You probably shouldn't be able to cheese 99% of enemies by jumping into a 3x3 pit of water. More ranged weapons. I would be fine with more damage types as well, so that a boar is resistant to piercing damage but not to slashing damage or something. Something a bit more dynamic than 'click at the enemy to kill it' would be nice, but I know better than to expect something like Mount & Blade or Morrowind. 
  • A better spawning system. Watching wolves and rabbits spawn out of thin air gets weird fast. The fact that I can clear an entire forest where some wolves live and they just keep spawning there and there's nothing I can do about it sucks. It sucks a lot. I've already rambled about Nests in other threads, though. The player's spawning system is also a bit too "fire & forget" right now. One temporal gear and I don't really have to worry about spawning ever again. A feature like the Spawn Nerf mod would be welcome, or perhaps a special kind of temporal monster that can erase your spawn point if it gets close to it, or your spawn point expires after an in-game year. 

I sincerely think you'd need at least all 4 of these before the game could really be called 'mature'. Obviously you can, and should, go farther.

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So I've been playing VIntage story about 30 hours or so in the last two weeks; I think mods have made the biggest difference; so content is something that definitely need more fleshing out. Popular mods like Expanded Foods and Primitive Survival have done a lot.

That said, one of my big obstacles about the game personally is, luckily, one that is very easily fixed: the default world gen is so big that most people will only ever experience the climate they spawn in, and it can take DAYS to find a missing resource. Each world I always seem to find most things, but there's always one thing missing; Bauxite, or Lime, or Resin, ect. Unfortunately the core gameplay loop of this game is very "homesteading" centric and you "miss out" on a lot if you go out exploring for prolonged periods of time, which is very much at odds with the huge size of the world. I generate smaller worlds with smaller equator-pole distances and it's much more interesting for me, so just changing the default world size settings would go a long ways towards people's initial impression of the game.

That said, I have very little experience caving, so maybe the translocators do more than I thought to make exploration viable? Though it doesn't solve the issue that Milk/cheese is basically exclusive to colder climates, and it's damn near impossible to relocate animals. For a game where Food is so crucial to the core game play loop, it's still a bit on the plain side.

So a little more nitty-gritty survival-based content, and a smaller default world setting basically make the game as it is now feel polished. But what else do I feel is missing to make a notable first impression? Definitely a better guide book, that's ultra important to a good first impression. 

But what would really give this game something to stand out on? Instead of trying to improve on the generally weak combat this genre usually has (something that would likely require a huge engine overhaul anyway) why don't we do something fresh and new the genre doesn't embrace as much? A solid story, discovered and unlocked though something engaging that already fits with VS's GUI-light approach? Myst-like puzzles, or riddle-locked doors/chests? Maybe Rhythm-game like quick time challenges that offer fresh replay-ability, and dexterity challenge that combat can't? Reaching even farther into my fantasy, what about a choose-your-own-adventure type branching narrative to make replays more interesting? Have different story steps unlock a little something so it's all worth seeing? That would really stand out to me personally, but I'm a real fan of choose-your-own-adventures and have been bitten by the nostalgia bug with Mass Effect's recent re-release.

What it boils down to is Story is a kind of Exploration and Progression too. and Something that would make the game stand out. Perhaps having Achievements be the trigger for the next step in dreaming? Or maybe just reading an old story, or holding an old tapestry.

Heck the exposition could be spiced up with dreams to make sleeping worth the HUGE hunger cost and would be a cool way to do conversations without having to add people/creatures walking around awkwardly.

Edited by Jessica O.
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  • 3 weeks later...

Somethings I would like to see in a "finished" version would probably include: 

  • A combat update 
  • A late game  "goal" such as a boss
  • More expansion on the Lovecraftian theme. 


I think the important thing is for players who hop into the game to quickly realize they are not in Minecraft anymore. The game still kind of feels like I'm playing a very good Minecraft mod. Not like thats a bad thing, but i think the game needs a feature it can boast really sets it apart. It could be a more in-depth crafting system, or just a stronger theme that doesn't just kind of appear here and there. Right now with Locus, Drifters, and wolves being the only real enemies makes the world feel so empty. I really get that the game likes to be a good canvas for modders, but Mod makers will come to good games on their own. I'd love to see the game itself show off what its capable of. 

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On 4/15/2020 at 3:15 AM, radfast said:

further tech tree progression, eventually to steel and some uses for the currently unused metals - the presence of unused metals and ores certainly makes the game feel "unfinished", especially given the strong emphasis on realistic mining tech and geology  (the Display Case 😍)

I don't remember where, but I read that some metals they put in without an intention to ever use them. They were just common ores mods used in Minecraft and they wanted to put them in to allow mods to play nicer with one another without having duplicate ores. Modders can just enable the ores and ajust the spawn values. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I love this game. I came here from minecraft and this is better. This is a sandbox survival game, but I think a couple of features are needed to make it finished.

▪an overhaul of the fighting system, right now the fighting is uninspiering and I find myself avoiding it an frankly getting anoyd by it. Make it worth it, get in critical hits ot weakpoints and make the hitbox better. That a sheep can hit you with while you are standing behind them makes no sence. You cant predict where they will hit. Also maby a wider variety of loot could make it worth going after the harder mobs or stay awake during temporal storms.

▪a fully fleshed out storry that is worth searching for. I love what we already get but I have gotten all so whenever I find a new book it's just a thing. Could be cool if you got bookshelf to put them in. You can have a story mode and a free mode and players can choose which one they wish to play.

▪beast of burdens, maby a donkey that can be used for a quern instead of a windmill and so on. Horses or goats or whatever that can become carrying animals but only from domestication level 10, so when you get them there that could be a good reward for instance.

▪a way to move your animals from one area to another.

▪ better water,with foodsources, shellfish or something.

▪not only food as important, but also drink, so you can make waterskins and get more use from your leather. teas and/ or syrups to help fill your fruit bar. 


▪a good reason to making blue cheese

▪ bigger variety in foods. For instance being able to boil eggs and not bound to put them in a stew. Also you should be able to add protein/egg to a dish where meat it is not the main ingredient, like in a soybean stew or a porridge. And sandwiches, use your bread with jam or egg or bacon or cheese and get a good mixed meal from it. You can prepare the other ingredients separately to make it pricy but worth it. Be able to use the jam in dishes.

▪also would be great if ther could be an alternative to bauxite to advance in to steelage or to be able to buy it from commodity traders. I am like 400 hundred hours into my game and have yet to find it and that is annoying. Whenever I hit a roadblock with resources it makes me wanna quit if I cant find it after 20 or so hours of gameplay specificly dedicated to find the resource. It might just be me beeing verry unlucky with my seed but that can happen to anyone, so maby make it so traders carry all the gatekeeper items, even if only in small quanty sporadically. That will also make them more relevant in all game stages.

There is much you can do to improve the game to make it outstanding,  but for me, it is already more finished than minecraft.


Edited by Silje M. A. Kristoffersen
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I think the game still needs more fleshing out. The game has a lot of grind, but i like the fact that you don't get your stuff for free, you really need to work for them. But while exploring and gathering resources i would like to see that there where more things to explore. More animals (deer, bear, moose, perhaps some african for other biomes), more herbs, more different mushrooms, more different trees and bushes, and also more things to craft. I know a more advanced textile crafting is coming, and fishing with boats, but it would be nice if there where more.

As it is now, i feel the game tends to loose a bit once you made and seen most of the things there is to explore.


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12 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

 The dev team consists of 2 people (to my understanding). 

Two *coders* (One of whom is part-time).  Which is the main bottleneck.  There's another half dozen or so folks beyond that, in other development roles.

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That's what I was referring to.  I'll be sure to specify the coding bottleneck in future calls for player patience. 


It would be wonderful if more coders would step up and help.  If my C++ education wasn't 20+ years old I'd offer my assistance with more basic aspects to writing code.

But the point is that we players need to exercise patience while the game continues to include features yet to be implemented.

Edited by Maelstrom
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17 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Patience.  The dev team consists of 2 people (to my understanding).  The next update will introduce 6 new tree types, two of which are rare and require extensive exploring and 5 new crops.  It's a lot of work for just 2 people.

I fully understand that there is a lot of work - i just wanted to share my views on what i miss most in the game. It's because i really like it i care. I don't have the skills to help out with coding myself.

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/3/2018 at 1:58 AM, tony Liberatto said:

Even though the game can be played in Single Player, the majority of players expect the game to be played in a Multiplayer safe environment. 
The success of servers hosting the game is the same as a success for the game.

Anything and everything that can help server admins will, in the end, help the game to be successful. 

For that I see things like:

Web server map, like Dynmap. It is a huge help for server admins to know at a glance what is going on on the server. It also helps players to situate themselves in relation to other players and the server spawn.

Chunk protection is another huge must have, maybe even bigger than the map. Right now we are playing in a trust mode. The same will not hold long once the game is actually sold in Steam.

Some log tool that works in a similar way as Prism, would also be very useful. Prism uses MySQL to keep a log of all player actions and interactions. If you open a chest and remove an item it logs that. In a server all players have access to it, so they can know who took their items.

There are many other server tools that could also be used, but I believe these 3 are the most important. 

The only other thing that I believe is a must is something akin to NEI, after a while it gets really annoying to have to go looking for a mod thread in the forum just to find out how to craft that one block or item. There needs to be a way in game to find how to craft all the items and blocks, including those added by mods, and including those that are crafted outside the grid.


Like minecraft at one time, this game really lacks administration tools. For some reason, this is rarely paid attention to. I will subscribe to each item tony Liberatto. Especially about Prism. All of these things are VERY important. I have been administering the Minecraft server for 10 years and I know what I'm talking about.
The success of the game will depend on what the admins can do on the server. IMHO.

Edited by momai Alex
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4 hours ago, caffeine9999 said:

@redram have you guys considered opensourcing the engine (but not assets)? That way  you could have some free contributions and focus more on new content. I, for one, would dedicate some time to improve the engine and fix some bugs

I'd have to dig up quotes, but from what I gather almost every change to the game made at the moment is made to the components that are open-sourced. Specifically, the "essentials" mod and the "survival" mod, which both work as mods on the engine base. With the mod patching system, you can make mods that do whatever changes you want to the game, fixes or otherwise. Hell, I imagine if you presented it to the devs they might even just pull said "fix" mods directly into the base mod, with some credit in the changelog.


Though of course, it can't hurt to ask the devs themselves about that directly; I'm just someone who spent a lot of time reading the code for fun.

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