My beloved TOPS, a question to the community

[Ultum]

First off, I enjoy this game, respect the developers, and have played 100s of hours, and am writing this in the hopes of a healthy discussion.  I am concerned the TOPS server is a bad idea, and I simply want to see what others think.

By offering a highly sought after, but limited experience, players are sharing their frustration (see Discord).

I’m simply asking a sincere question, is it better to have played, than to have never played at all?  Should there be an official server?

Thank you in advance for being respectful, and thoughtful in your replies, so that we are able to have this discussion.

[LadyWYT]

15 minutes ago, Brian Lemans said:

I am concerned the TOPS server is a bad idea, and I simply want to see what others think.

I don't play on TOPS, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to have an official public server, and if there wasn't one, I'm sure at least some players would probably ask for one. That being said...official public servers are typically going to be popular experiences that more players want to play on than maybe there is room on the server. It's not really any different than a concert for a popular band or a popular restaurant at mealtime, or even a popular attraction at an amusement park. There's a limit to how many people can enjoy it at once and somebody's going to end up having to wait their turn if they're intent on playing.

Opening up a server for each different region can help alleviate some of the problems, since then players can play on the server appropriate for their region and thus have a smoother experience. However, if players are flocking to TOPS because the devs play on that server specifically...there's probably not much that can be done to lighten the player load.

A couple of alternatives that should be considered, I think, are finding a different server to play on than TOPS, or otherwise hosting one's own server. In that case, the player won't have to deal with the wait times, and in the case of purchasing their own server, will have a lot more control over what happens to their world and when. 

26 minutes ago, Brian Lemans said:

By offering a highly sought after, but limited experience, players are sharing their frustration (see Discord).

I also want to note that a lot of the issues I've seen aren't specific to TOPS, as much as they are just issues with large multiplayer servers in general. It's been a while since my WoW days, but there were similar issues there as well, despite Activision/Blizzard being a much larger company with many more resources to work with. On expansion launches it wasn't unusual to need to wait a few minutes/several minutes to log in to the larger servers, and even after launch there could still sometimes be player queues at peak times(or during DDoS attacks, which did sometimes happen). Whenever that happened, the solution was to either wait patiently to log in, or go find something else to do for a while and try again later.

Does it suck when it happens? Yes, but that's just one of the primary drawbacks of opting for the most popular options.

[Broccoli Clock]

From experience, I'd say most people should expect an "official server" to be locked down and to have quite proactive admins.  After all, if it's not moderated and a bunch of trolls came in wrecking the place and throwing around slurs then it's just a bad look for VS. The ability to run your own server, either locally or hosted, allows people to get past those "official restrictions".

I don't play online though, just the 'difficulty' I have virtually interacting with people (I'm sure you are all lovely, but I'm a bit odd like that, and it's crazy thing to say when I'm happy to bump my gums on the forum). So my opinion is not based on TOPS or any underlying drama, more the experience over the decades of watching games split between private and official hosting. 

Edited April 5 by Broccoli Clock

[Teh Pizza Lady]

36 minutes ago, Brian Lemans said:

I am concerned the TOPS server is a bad idea, and I simply want to see what others think.

By offering a highly sought after, but limited experience, players are sharing their frustration (see Discord).

I’m simply asking a sincere question, is it better to have played, than to have never played at all?  Should there be an official server?

Thank you in advance for being respectful, and thoughtful in your replies, so that we are able to have this discussion.

I think your concerns are valid, especially when access is limited and people are clearly eager to be a part of it. That kind of setup will inevitably lead to frustration even when it's not the intention.

That said TOPS is not inherently a bad idea. There is only so much testing the dev team can do, only so much feedback they can get without opening up the game for a large number of players to test in a multiplayer scenario. That is why TOPS is not an acronym, but actually a "pseudo acronym" because TOPS actually the Official Public Test Server. The whole point of the server is for testing the latest releases of the game with real players interacting in real conditions to test things like game balance, system stability, and to see if any unexpected behaviors will pop up during gameplay. That kind of data is then used to further tune the game.

So you ask the question whether it is better to have played than to have never played at all. That is a question that only you can answer, but I believe that if you are seeking a multiplayer experience, then you could find it elsewhere with friends or by starting your own server and advertising it in the multiplayer section of the game. Just be aware of the challenges that come with such things. Should there be an official server? For reasons outline above, yes.

Hope this answers your questions.

[Vexxvididu]

53 minutes ago, Brian Lemans said:

First off, I enjoy this game, respect the developers, and have played 100s of hours, and am writing this in the hopes of a healthy discussion.  I am concerned the TOPS server is a bad idea, and I simply want to see what others think.

By offering a highly sought after, but limited experience, players are sharing their frustration (see Discord).

I’m simply asking a sincere question, is it better to have played, than to have never played at all?  Should there be an official server?

Thank you in advance for being respectful, and thoughtful in your replies, so that we are able to have this discussion.

It would be a bit helpful if you expanded upon what your exact concerns are with the official public server.  Just reading other chats don't tell us much about what your own thoughts are.

Now... I'm a solo player, so I'm bias against TOPS, but I do see a lot of value in having a test server with more than just the devs as @LadyWYT pointed out. I couldn't imagine wanting to make a "forever home" on a big public server though. I think it's unrealistic to try a complex build on a big public server without any expectation of being trolled at some point. If you want to control what's gong on with minimal lag, it's obviously better to play solo or just with your own friends.

[Ultum]

1 hour ago, Vexxvididu said:

"It would be a bit helpful if you expanded upon what your exact concerns are with the official public server..."
 

 

Actually, I didn't want to share my opinion as it's just that, and I didn't want it influencing the discussion, or people focusing solely on my opinion.

I realize that doesn't answer your question, but thanks for understanding.

Edited April 5 by Brian Lemans

[Ultum]

2 hours ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

There is only so much testing the dev team can do, only so much feedback they can get without opening up the game for a large number of players to test in a multiplayer scenario.

This line alone really helped put it into perspective. I need to stop looking at TOPS as my 'forever world' and come back down to my senses.

Thank you.

[Ultum]

5 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

…Opening up a server for each different region can help alleviate some of the problems…

… it wasn't unusual to need to wait a few minutes/several minutes to log in to the larger servers, and even after launch there could still sometimes be player queues at peak times

I like the idea of regional servers, that would help with performance as well.

…our queue times are 3-6 hours.

[ifoz]

I think a decent way to alleviate some queue frustration would also be introducing a feature where for about a minute after a player disconnects, they could rejoin and they would regain their position in the server or in queue. TOPS (and just internet connections in general) isn't/aren't the most stable, and it is a frequent occurrence to wait in queue for hours only to get disconnected in the single digits, or to finally get in, play for five minutes, and then get disconnected and sent straight back to 130 in the queue.

Edited April 5 by ifoz

[Ultum]

That seems like a legit feature, given our queue times.

[KahvozeinsFang]

12 hours ago, Brian Lemans said:

By offering a highly sought after, but limited experience, players are sharing their frustration (see Discord).

I've said plenty of times there should be more than just a single official server. There should be at least one high capacity servers for every region the game is sold in, ideally two or more.

 

But really I can't be particularly bothered by not being able to play on it. You have to travel extremely far to find anything useful, as every other player that joined the world has stripped the land clean things like copper, reeds, clay and flint for ten thousand blocks. 

[Ultum]

I definitely think it would be nice to have at least a few more options. 

For sure, a queue of 3-6 hours is not right, and these times aren't going away any time soon.  But it will be less later, but what is less, 2 hours?  And I get it, we all want to play on a popular server, and I understand a small queue of a few minutes, because it means the server is popular, which we all want, but waiting half a day is not a successful business model, in any business.

It would be nice if there was a precidence we could compare this to, but it's not like WoW or even that other block game, in terms of userbase, and I'm not sure the developers want to rush fame, as it's more a labor of love.

Anyway, appreciate people's input, I really don't have the answer.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

10 minutes ago, Brian Lemans said:

I definitely think it would be nice to have at least a few more options. 

For sure, a queue of 3-6 hours is not right, and these times aren't going away any time soon.  But it will be less later, but what is less, 2 hours?  And I get it, we all want to play on a popular server, and I understand a small queue of a few minutes, because it means the server is popular, which we all want, but waiting half a day is not a successful business model, in any business.

It would be nice if there was a precidence we could compare this to, but it's not like WoW or even that other block game, in terms of userbase, and I'm not sure the developers want to rush fame, as it's more a labor of love.

Anyway, appreciate people's input, I really don't have the answer.

I think the queue is because people are on and the server has limited slots. If the game sells 1000 copies but only 75 slots are open on the TOPS server, then you are going to have to wait to play.

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

I think the queue is because people are on and the server has limited slots. If the game sells 1000 copies but only 75 slots are open on the TOPS server, then you are going to have to wait to play.

I mean, if you go to the home page and scroll down to the "Buy Now" button, the text right above that will say approximately how many players are online at that moment. At the time of writing this post, it's 1256. To be fair, not all of them are going to be playing on TOPS, but even just 6% of that number is going to fill 75 slots. Could easily be less if a few of those 75 slots are reserved for admin/dev use.

[Ultum]

Hah, thank you, I never noticed this before.

Upon further thought, I only hope the 4-hour queue doesn’t mar new player's experience, leading them away from such a great game.

[Cypeace]

7 minutes ago, Brian Lemans said:

Hah, thank you, I never noticed this before.

Upon further thought, I only hope the 4-hour queue doesn’t mar new player's experience, leading them away from such a great game.

New players probably have enough on their plates to figure out in single player to really stress about multiplayer. Unless they have friends who pulled them into the game in which case they probably play on private server.

[LadyWYT]

15 minutes ago, Brian Lemans said:

Upon further thought, I only hope the 4-hour queue doesn’t mar new player's experience, leading them away from such a great game.

I doubt it will, unless they're just intent on playing TOPS and only TOPS for some reason.

[idiomcritter]

the selfish me wants those that play on tops to feel the futility and move on.... i'll get through the que must faster thankyou

was discussing through vc with other players while waiting in the que, when the thought arose, maybe the que splash screen could include tetras, with a tracking of high scores!  i was corrected though, the splash screen should earn the player rusty gears :blink:

game within (or is that without)

the game,

is still part of the game?

[Ultum]

Love the thought of being able to earn rgs while in the queue.
 

Haha and I get it, clearly defined futility would advance us quicker, I was just trying to think about what’s in the best interest for the long term success of the game.  But the more I think about that, they’ve already been successful, so perhaps that goal has been reached as well.

[Dilan Rona]

I've yet to get onto tops myself. Everytime I try I'm stuck in a queue. And at 80'th position at the best.

[Ultum]

I would definitely recommend avoiding for now.  Once you get in, you have an itch to play due to your progress, and then you're back in the queue again.

[wildforester]

The queue is not as major an issue as may be portrayed. You can join the queue earlier in the day, do some work, eat some food, etc. Then come back and wait a little bit till you’re in.

Though ppl with poorer internet connects may certainly have issues. Queue has been decreasing however since launch and can get into the 40s-60s at certain times of day. It’s important to look at playing on TOPS as a pastime and not an integral part of life. 

[Ultum]

Perhaps the experience is different depending on where you live, and what time you play.

And as a reminder, I’m not attacking their decision to have a test server.  I’m just asking for some critical thinking on it’s experience for the community.

[Pascaloubicou]

The main problem i encounter with Tops now is that the queue thing and popularity conflict with the unstable version it run on, i'm glad to report crashes and all but waiting hours for that is a no no, it's a huge deal cause most of the sessions end up this way. Yes a vanilla official server is a very good idea, unstable with that amount of players no that good of an idea. 
And i cannot cope with the waiting the whole day running VS on my machine while doing some cores and stuff, from my experience that what most of the players i know do and it's not a good way to enjoy the game.
Not playing, if you are a healthy individual. (Still gonna try today)  

[Ultum]

Yeah, I agree, also, instead of finding another server, we have so many choices of so many other games…but I’d rather be here.

It’s a blessing and a curse, growing a business.