[Poll] Ore distribution

[Erik]

I'm really unsatisfied with the current mining experience. It's basically like minecraft, where there's little patches of ore everywhere and mining infrastructure is useless. Prospecting only tells you, if a chunk has many ores or few, which isn't overly useful, since the most useful ores are also the most common.

I would rather prefer a Terrafirmacraft like approach, with better prospecting (Prospecting in TFC is very difficult to get into). Veins would ideally be generated like the Reasonable Realism mod (very long, thin veins). Prospecting should tell you if there are ores beneath in a certain radius (like 6 block diameter). If there is a ore block somewhere directly beneath the prospected block, the player should be notified. So prospecting would be a search on the surface, with clear results.

I added a poll to this post, I would be very happy, if you could fill in your opinion.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Erik

[redram]

I don't think mixing prospecting and ore generation really helps the poll.  They're kind of separate issues, or could be.   Changing ore generation might make prospecting not so bad, for instance.

To the first question, I'd answer both should be improved, which I think they will be.  There's been discussion of other methods of prospecting.  I think it's a little short-sighted to treat things as if the propick is the only tool that we'll ever have.

To the second question I'd answer larger veins, but not for infrastructure purposes - I don't think it will help that.  I think it would improve the chances of people finding exposed ores in caves, which should ease some of the bronze issues people have been having.  I'd also like to see ores have more verticality to them, so that horizontal exploration tunnels can be used, rather than vertical shafts, which the current flat disc form encourages.  If horizontal tunnels can be encouraged, that would set up a scenario where mine carts could become useful, with some other changes.  It's harder to make minecarts useful when vertical shafts are the preferred exploratory method.

Question 3 was the only one I could answer straight, but it won't let me submit just 1 answer.  I like the current frequency mechanic, and I'd love it if the entire system could be arranged such that it stays in some way.  But I realize there's a strong likelihood that too many people dislike it.  But, frequency and direct indication are *not* mutually exclusive.  In fact, your suggested range of 6 blocks for direct indication would still require some kind of frequency most likely, as that's a very short range of detection.  I actually think they could complement each other very well.   Expecting players to just use direct detection is a recipe for TFC's one-dimensional system, where surface ores get exploited, but nothing else because it's all too deep to be detected.  Unless veins were extremely scattered.

[Erik]

1 hour ago, redram said:

 Question 3 was the only one I could answer straight, but it won't let me submit just 1 answer.  I like the current frequency mechanic, and I'd love it if the entire system could be arranged such that it stays in some way.  But I realize there's a strong likelihood that too many people dislike it.  But, frequency and direct indication are *not* mutually exclusive.  In fact, your suggested range of 6 blocks for direct indication would still require some kind of frequency most likely, as that's a very short range of detection.  I actually think they could complement each other very well.

I don't think the frequency and direct detection go well with each other, as direct detection would only be useful with much rarer veins and frequency detection with much more common clusters. If you can dig down everywhere and expect to find ores 70% of the time, there is no real purpose in using direct prospecting. If you won't find more than two veins in an area, there is no real use in frequency prospecting. The methods of ore generation have different problems for the player to solve. With larger rare veins, the player needs to find the vein. With common small clusters, the player can easily find clusters, but might wan't to know where the most clusters for  what metal are.

1 hour ago, redram said:

I don't think mixing prospecting and ore generation really helps the poll.  They're kind of separate issues, or could be.   Changing ore generation might make prospecting not so bad, for instance.

You're right. But I wouldn't say they are separate issues, I think that they are tied together, where only one option of prospecting makes sense for one option of ore generation.

[Erik]

I edited the poll, to reflect the feedback.

[redram]

40 minutes ago, Erik said:

I don't think the frequency and direct detection go well with each other, as direct detection would only be useful with much rarer veins and frequency detection with much more common clusters.

As it stands currently, the frequency prospecting is needed to figure out if you're even in the right vicinity to find the ore you want.  Because VS does not tie ores to rock type like TFC did.   It allows you do do so with enough precision that you can fairly easily zero in on large deposit ores like iron and coal.  Much harder for small deposits like tin and bismuth, and therein is the major problem. 

Direct indicating could be useful even within the current setup, in that once you're in a decent area, you could go around prospecting with a direct indicating tool, to actually find the ore.  You could do a shaft/tunnel, direct indicating as you go, and have a much better chance than currently.  This is because currently a vertical shaft only tells you 5 blocks at each cross section.  The shaft, plus the four adjacent.  A 6 block radius would tell you 169 blocks cross section (13x13).  This is nearly a %3,400 improvement.  Yet still only 1/4 what TFC propicking tells, in cross-sectional terms (1/8 of TFC in volumetric terms).  If you have no frequency detection method in the current setup, then you're limited to blindly tunneling and prospecting, which would be hugely, hugely inefficient, or propicking caves and the surface - also inefficient give how rare ores zones are currently.    So, within the current general ore scenario, even if ores have a great vertical component, both frequency and direct indication would be useful.  I think that even if deposits turned into big spaghetti monsters, it would still be good to have frequency, because the world is just so vast.  I've done blanket surface propicking in TFC.  It's very time consuming - 4x as much so if the search radius is only 1/2 that of TFC. 

I'm pretty sure that right now you cannot dig 'anywhere' and have a 70% chance of hitting useful ores.  If you include quartz, salt, and sulfur in 'useful ores', then maybe.  As for copper, I'm pretty sure the plan is to reduce it eventually - I'm pretty sure it was said somewhere that it's only as common as it is for these early testing phases.

There's no reason to tie the prospecting method to the ore vein generation.  They don't have any direct necessary links.    I'd propose more like:

1 - "What do you think of the current method of propicking (frequency detection) in VS?  A) No good, throw it out and do  something else (for instance TFC-like direct indication). B) It's good, but not enough on its own.  Keep it but add other propicking methods.  C) Its great, no other methods needed.

I don't think anyone will pick C though.

2 - "How would you like to see ore veins work in VS?  A) They're great as they are (flat discs of fairly small size relative to TFC) no change. B) size and distribution like now, but more forms (clouds, snakes, tentacles)  C) rarer larger distributed clouds, similar to TFC (easier to hit from both above and the side) D) huge long snaking veins  E) smaller tentacle-like veins leading to a dense core.    F) Varied forms either randomly or based on ore type (kind of like Reasonable Realism mod for MC).        Etc etc.  

 

[Balduranne]

4 hours ago, Erik said:

I edited the poll, to reflect the feedback.

But I already voted

[Stroam]

 

For the most part, I like the way prospecting works. I wish ore generation was different though. 

[MICHAEL CAMPBELL]

I Would like to see spawns be massive in size such that if a player finds a particular ore they wont really need to locate another.

But I want them to be few and far between and spawn in rock types and locations where it would make sence for them to be.

I would also like the pro pick to display not only the ore's and %

but also a + or - after the Ore to indicate depth.

A level of 0 would indicate a 3 block hieght band on which the player would be concidered level with the ore.

Posably a cardinal direction as well north south east or west. 

I feel if the player could at least have a indication on what block hieght a deposit was on they could better home in on deposits.

The reasons I would like to see massive ore spawns is very much the argument that it would then make a great deal of sense for the player to build logical infrastructure to support the harvesting and transport of that material. I would really love to explore vast distances for said ores and then develope rail transport to and from thoes locations to a central prossing facility.

I find that after a while hunting and pecking for small amounts of Pocket ore's gets annoying. It also doesnt ever give the player an opertunity to plan for production but rather bank ore until such time that they determine that it can then be used to produce a limited production of tools or somthing.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by MICHAEL CAMPBELL

[Gazz]

Well, what does the game want to be?

It's true that right now mine carts would not be a big help with mining - only with large distance transportation.
The question is: Is "mining infrastructure" an actual topic in the design?
If not then this may simply be working as designed.

Prospecting actually works. The issue is that there is zero guidance on it ingame and not everyone plays games with a Wiki up on another monitor.
Improve the interface / documentation of it and it would work fine.

[John Martinez]

On 3/20/2020 at 8:13 PM, Gazz said:

It's true that right now mine carts would not be a big help with mining - only with large distance transportation.
The question is: Is "mining infrastructure" an actual topic in the design?
If not then this may simply be working as designed.

I agree with this observation. The first problem with needing mining infrastructure is that you don't really need to produce enough ore to even warrant it in the first place and that's definitely a design choice because as of yet there is no industrial age type setting to this game.

As for the ore distribution, while some people may really prefer a more realistic environment I think that this type of algorithm change needs to be an option that can be configured. Furthermore, I'd say that even as the game stands now the default ore distribution is harrowing for most normies and kids. Overall, I'd say that the default survival experience should probably be made more accessible to casual and young players and the current survival settings should be renamed "Expert Survival" or something along those lines. 

People may not give a toss about this, but I think it's important for this game to be as accessible as it can to most people out of the box so that it gets more commercial traction. The developers are very good about making everything configurable, so it's possible to have something that appeals to a broad audience as well as a game that can be configured to be very realistic if you desire.

 

[Gazz]

In my current game I have large tool racks of bronze tools and weapons, 18000 units of bronze in crucibles, ready to re-heat and cast, and a pile of about 70 ingots. Plus plenty of ore to make more. In case of war, I guess.

I'm just saying that with the current system it's perfectly possible to pile up completely unreasonable amounts of metal.

Now what I _did_ do is create a mod to re-balance the ores. Not a flat increase (there is a game option for that) but weighted to predominantly increase the "rare" ones. Still a lot of work traveling and prospecting but it's a... bigger needle in a haystack.

I hear you on accessibility. Ingame documentation / guidance is sketchy at best and item descriptions (like on the hammer / propick) that could point out special features and controls are sometimes completely missing.
(I know, it's alpha and that's not at all the focus)

[Erik]

On 3/20/2020 at 11:13 AM, Gazz said:

Well, what does the game want to be?

It's true that right now mine carts would not be a big help with mining - only with large distance transportation.
The question is: Is "mining infrastructure" an actual topic in the design?
If not then this may simply be working as designed.

Currently, the ore distribution is not designed to suit building mining infrastructure like minecarts. I just think the game could gain a lot by having ore distribution that at least encourages and rewards building mining infrastructure. Ofc the game is currently working as intended, as there isn't any infrastructure right now, but that could change in the future, especially seeing as transportation (boats, minecarts) is a highly requested feature for 2020.

6 hours ago, John Martinez said:

As for the ore distribution, while some people may really prefer a more realistic environment I think that this type of algorithm change needs to be an option that can be configured. Furthermore, I'd say that even as the game stands now the default ore distribution is harrowing for most normies and kids. Overall, I'd say that the default survival experience should probably be made more accessible to casual and young players and the current survival settings should be renamed "Expert Survival" or something along those lines. 

People may not give a toss about this, but I think it's important for this game to be as accessible as it can to most people out of the box so that it gets more commercial traction. The developers are very good about making everything configurable, so it's possible to have something that appeals to a broad audience as well as a game that can be configured to be very realistic if you desire.

More options are always great, but I think the game should focus on the more realistic, more interesting option. This isn't Minecraft, the target audience aren't kids, having Minecraft like ore distribution as a default would probably only harm the game, as it makes the "Minecraft-clone" arguments much more valid.

Maybe a middle ground would work best, with most ores generating like they currently do (aka, small clusters with quality depending on the stone type and quantity depending on the ore map), but more advanced ores like iron or some types of coal generating in rare, long, thin veins with low quality ore that go on for miles and warrant construction of infrastructure, as iron and coal are very commonly used materials. It would spice up the system and give a good bit of variety.

Maybe making only copper ore generation more like Minecraft would also help, as it is the starting material. It would certainly help new players, while not taking away from the prospecting, as any other ore requires it.

Another supportive way of encouraging infrastructure would be to lower the stack size of ores and make turning ores into nuggets require an anvil.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Erik

[David Taylor]

My take on the huge rare deposits idea, which would be more realistic, is that it would only suit multiplayer. Then players could set up over a deposit and be the supplier for everyone else. Long range transport of some sort would be nice, or maybe other players would act as caravans/traders to distribute that resource.

But I don't think it would work for single player mode. It would be tedious to have to travel far away and bring back as much of the resource as possible so you had it close to hand, with multiple trips because inv space is limited. Having most things in most places is a playability necessity in my mind. Ok if you have to travel for a couple of things, but not everything.

It looks like the dev has done an exceptional job of making the engine modable so it doesn't seem a stretch to think someone motivated enough could replace the ore generation part. Having said that I don't know if you can hook into worldgen and replace bits of it.

[Ekamai]

I've found an ocean of Iron in my world. It took me over 14 hours IRL to even uncover it all. I haven't even started collecting it yet...

Maybe It's a fluke, as mostly I do tend to find chunks of flat ore veins, between 8-20ish blocks in size.

Trust me though, this ore vein is crazy!

[David Taylor]

Regarding prospecting, I think it sort of works ATM but isn't much fun. I watched the video and read the threads and a systematic survey makes sense.

I started around my homestead for a few hundred blocks in each direction and got a lot of nothing much. No tin, of course, one high copper, everything else very poor.

It wasn't enough fun I wanted to keep going in all directions.

I had taken the propick by mistake when I was looking for resin and figured while I was out and about I may as well give it a few goes. I found poor tin, better than anything around home, so kept looking and got it to very high. It isn't too hard to see you're getting lower or higher. I was going 50 metres in each direction.

But at that point I thought about the next step with the other propick mode and couldn't be bothered. I copied my world, switched to creative in the copy and went looking at the very high location. I hit a layer of quartz about 10 metres down. I went through it and found the tin about 20 under it. It wasn't anything like as large as iron or coal veins I've found but good enough. As you only need 10% tin for bronze you don't need that much.

I wouldn't be able to get through the quartz with my copper pick and it was extensive enough it didn't seem I could reasonably mine my way around it - I gave up in 3 directions even in creative. Luckily the last direction I tried had it ending fairly close to my reading location so I noted the edge of the quartz layer, and where I'd seen the copper, and then took it from there back in the survival world.

I looked up tin mining the other day and after following a few pages I think I may have found the wiki page the dev used to decide ore probabilities - the numbers looked exactly the same

A lot of bronze age tin mining seemed to be at or close to the surface, so having to dig through quartz seems unfair.

[peitum]

I voted "In rare large clusters and veins. Prospecting should directly indicate a cluster."

Prospecting works ok, although the second mode should really be enabled by default. Ore generation, though.. I like the idea that Erik put forward about a few smaller clusters for getting started, but also rarer massive veins.

[Hal13]

i think it would be nice to have a way to prospect vertically too.

maybe prospecting could have a reach of about half worldheight, and depending on the sample layout you used you could prospect in different directions? for example if all 3 samples were on the same y level you would prospect like now, but you'd need to be on at max half height to detect the lowest y levels. and else you create a symmetry plane with the sample points and get a reading for half worldheight blocks in both directions perpendicular to that plane.

the ore generation with ores generating kinda in a layer isn't that bad, just that it's always kinda a disc shape, more height diffences in a ore deposit though would be nice. Everytime i found iron i'm good for the rest of time, but the earlier metals not so much, especially zinc, bismuth and/or tin are just way too rare (or just way too hard to find) everytime i find a deposit it's really small often not more than an ingot or two worth of metal in it.

[Brynn Bernstein]

One thing that's really frustrating me so far about prospecting and mining is that unlike minecraft, where a vein of ore is all connected on its faces (so every block of ore is in direct contact with another block of that ore), in VS I'm having a lot of trouble finding and clearing out a whole cluster that I've located, the node search mode propick indicates trace amounts are left over and over while I try to stripmine and find it. I know this is super inefficient but I'm a little neurotic about not wasting the ore and it's driving me a little insane. I think changing the cluster generation so you can get through a whole cluster without hidden bits would be nice, or maybe a third propick mode that says like "the nearest ore is a [type], approximately [distance] away" would work? It's a bit more direct than the node search in terms of location but unless you're right next to the cluster, looking through a 50 block radius would still be pretty difficult and it could even have some amount of randomness in the distance approximation. Or maybe a specialization mode for the propick where you hold a nugget of an ore in your off-hand or craft it with the propick or a new item like a dowsing rod and it can then only detect that ore but in a wide range? Having it be in the off-hand does make it harder because you can't hold a torch while doing it, but I think that could help stop it from becoming broken.

Maybe with more practice I'll get more used to prospecting, but currently as a noob these are my thoughts. (Currently I'm stuck on getting bronze because finding the parts of the alloy has been frustrating especially because I don't want to abandon my sheep or chickens for too long)

[redram]

22 hours ago, Brynn Bernstein said:

Currently I'm stuck on getting bronze because finding the parts of the alloy has been frustrating especially because I don't want to abandon my sheep or chickens for too long

fyi, they won't die of hunger or anything.  The females need food to breed, and during winter males and females can become lean (yield less meat) if not fed well.  But They won't die.

[Thalius]

I wanted to vote on this, but did not see an option that suited my thoughts on the issue.
I've been spending a lot of time mining and learning the prospecting mechanics and such recently, but I'll not say much aside from:

1. Leave prospecting alone. I think it works fine, once you know how to do it.  For those that just don't like the search for a good location and then the time it takes to locate and mine out the ore, there are settings to increase ore spawn ratios to make finding it easier.
2. Ore generation needs an adjustment, but I can't say exactly how. I can see the pros and cons to every suggestion made on this particular issue.  Maybe ores should have a chance to spawn in all of these manners, varying by rock type, depth, and geography, perhaps. 

I think my main issue with mining though is there is no real reason to stay in an area. I mean, I find a good location, mine out all the ore I can find, abandon the hole(s) I just cut out and go prospect for another shaft and hole to dig. It works, and I'm finding ore, but it feels odd.

I'd like something that actually felt more like setting up a mining operation. Not sure how to acquire that though, naturally.  Carry capacity weight limits? Cave-ins requiring reinforcements? Rare, massive deposits of ores scattered in small pockets or veins scattered over a large horizontal and somewhat vertical area, or the opposite- numerous small pockets of ore scattered over a large vertical and somewhat horizontal area? A mix of all  of those, along with variations of previous ore deposit suggestions? I'm not sure, but the answer is in there somewhere. 

Geography, depth, and rock type should have a lot to say about how ore deposits form.  I guess I'm looking for something more dynamic in the way ore deposits occur and the shape that they take.

~TH~

Edited April 7, 2021 by Thalius

[AngryRob]

This is a weird problem. on one hand, there are a lot of mechanics that are built around exploring and prospecting. you HAVE to find resources, and the hunt for resources is very important. At the same time, if you do not find the resources you need, you are completely screwed and can not enjoy the game. It's that balance between realism and gameplay. So what can be done to fix it?

There are a few solutions. Maybe improve drops during temporal storms? this forces combat and no longer makes those storms a stupid meme, but an actual, important mechanic that makes you look forward to the cthuthulu harassment day. 

Another one is trade, improving trade where what you can not find you can buy off of traders. So far traders are the only way i can get salt. They need an improvement, because honestly only a few of them are worth trading with. 

The third option, and the one i think should be really pushed, is more alternative recipes. That way if you are not able to get the resources you need, you can do some sort of alternative. 

I am conflicted with the ore scarcity. On one hand it disrupts my plans completely, because i am dependent on exploration. But on the other hand working around and overcoming that disruption is also very fun. Maybe the issue is not the scarcity, but with prospecting? Maybe have multiple means of prospecting that when used by themselves are inaccurate, but when used together, are more accurate? Or more geographic features that could indicate ore deposits? 

[Erik]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:14 PM, Thalius said:

I wanted to vote on this, but did not see an option that suited my thoughts on the issue.
I've been spending a lot of time mining and learning the prospecting mechanics and such recently, but I'll not say much aside from:

1. Leave prospecting alone. I think it works fine, once you know how to do it.  For those that just don't like the search for a good location and then the time it takes to locate and mine out the ore, there are settings to increase ore spawn ratios to make finding it easier.

Having used the prospecting for quite a while now, I now also think it's ok.

On 4/7/2021 at 10:14 PM, Thalius said:

1. Ore generation needs an adjustment, but I can't say exactly how. I can see the pros and cons to every suggestion made on this particular issue.  Maybe ores should have a chance to spawn in all of these manners, varying by rock type, depth, and geography, perhaps. 

Personally I now think the ore distribution should be different per ore type, i.e. metal. Most ores should stay unchanged, so generating in large disks that are easily found by combining prospecting and vertical mining. Large thin disks may not sound the most appealing for ore generation, but the advantage of being easily found is just too good to ignore.

Iron generation should however be completely changed imo. It shouldn't rely on the ore density map and should be readily available everywhere, like surface copper. Unlike surface copper, if should generate in absurdly long, thin veins. I mean thousands of blocks long, snaking through the underground. The point being that they are perfect for building long minecart tracks. Maybe there should still be some iron that generates in the default way, in disks, but it should overall probably be rarer. As iron is the metal that is probably used the most once leaving the bronze age, as even steel relies on it, it makes sense to setup permanent mining infrastructure for it.

The main problem with such veins however remains being able to find them in the first place, so something to make that easier must also be added.

16 hours ago, AngryRob said:

This is a weird problem. on one hand, there are a lot of mechanics that are built around exploring and prospecting. you HAVE to find resources, and the hunt for resources is very important. At the same time, if you do not find the resources you need, you are completely screwed and can not enjoy the game. It's that balance between realism and gameplay. So what can be done to fix it?

I don't think the main problem with the current ore distribution and prospecting system is not being able to obtain ore. Sure, it's not intuitive for new players, but once you know the game there is no progression relevant resource that you will have a hard time finding.

I'd say the main problem of the current ore distribution is, while encouraging exploration and travel, not encouraging possible mining infrastructure (minecart tracks, elevators, etc.). Not a big problem now, as there are no such things right now, but they would be something cool to have in the future, but require the ore distribution to be different to be useful.

Another problem is that caves are kinda useless for finding ores, when they could offer a nice high risk, high reward way of obtaining them without prospecting. Ore veins that spawn on the walls of caves (not just randomly happen to intersect a cave, but actually spawn because of the cave) would be an amazing feature.

[Stefano Da Giau]

Voted long ago but since the comments are list opened for the thread.. I don't mind the idea of supporting beams and cave-ins mechanics.. That being sad, adding something like that definitely needs a rebalance on how to find veins/clusters, and their size/rarity.. No one wants to waste many resources in making a tunnel fully supported by beams, that take a lot more time to set up, just to have a false positive based on how the map cluster has the chance of spawning a ore vein, not actually spawning it

[Omega Haxors]

I want there to be a way to pull from the ore map directly through some kind of mechanic. Being able to extract trace minerals from the ground would go a long way in preventing the probability-based system of actually looking for a deposit, and remove those annoying situations when an ore has a high chance to spawn, but doesn't.

[Silent Shadow]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:59 PM, Omega Haxors said:

I want there to be a way to pull from the ore map directly through some kind of mechanic. Being able to extract trace minerals from the ground would go a long way in preventing the probability-based system of actually looking for a deposit, and remove those annoying situations when an ore has a high chance to spawn, but doesn't.

The realistic options are panning, which would only see nuggets from eroded ore sources (i.e. not most ores), or crushing and melting the entirety of all rocks/gravel/sand harvested at an enormous energy cost (fuel and player calories). Second option is not done IRL, as it is vastly inefficient, from durability losses of hammers from crushing rock/gravel (the whole point is to get metal, not lose it), the staggering amounts of fuel and flux required to separate and reduce the metal, and the massive amount of slag waste generated (in the game however, slag is not depicted).

Probably neither is gonna happen, so you should just increase the amount of ore spawned.

On 9/24/2021 at 4:10 AM, Stefano Da Giau said:

Voted long ago but since the comments are list opened for the thread.. I don't mind the idea of supporting beams and cave-ins mechanics.. That being sad, adding something like that definitely needs a rebalance on how to find veins/clusters, and their size/rarity.. No one wants to waste many resources in making a tunnel fully supported by beams, that take a lot more time to set up, just to have a false positive based on how the map cluster has the chance of spawning a ore vein, not actually spawning it

I like the idea, but disagree with changing prospecting, you can already find ores pretty easily and wood is pretty cheap. Even using logs every few blocks would not be that bad.

Apart from ladders though, there is no real reason to invest in mine infrastructure. Most real mines invest in ventilation or moving rock by the tons, neither of which are an issue for the player thanks to no weight limit, the cheap mining bags, and the player's apparent lack of the need to breath.

Blasting bombs are not useful because they do not save you any time, with the debatable exception of low value quartz. Theoretically they would be quite useful if used to counter a severely reduced mining speed, the player would only dig a hole and then place a charge in and blast the rest of the tunnel in seconds instead of digging it after some time. What defeats this idea though, is the fact that players do not need tunnels nor shafts wider than 1 block. Since blasting charges only serve to widen holes, their only reasonable application is to quickly blow apart ore deposit discs and they negate this advantage by deleting some of the ore (10%?). Perhaps a better idea would be to use the chisel and hammer to cut a 2x2 voxel hole 2 blocks into the rock face and place charges in it, this way players could blast tunnels out in a direction quickly instead of just widening a hole out,